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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 6022151" data-attributes="member: 92305">That's fair. All evidence suggests that a design goal of 3.0/3.5 was to take the more free-form approach of 2E and shift it 180 degrees so that the game is focussed on a battlemap. In many ways, 3.0/3.5 seems to more of a board game than it is a roleplaying game, moving counters (miniatures) around a grid.  Thanks brother. I see your point here in your post. I think I leaned towards it being a design flaw and not a different approach because, for me, playing the way I describe above is what I got addicted to way back when I first started playing. Although I liked it the dice rolling and stat-managing, that was stuff that I was used to playing other games--especially war games. Rolling an abstract attack over a 1 minute combat round (as it used to be) was to me exactly like a counter representing a tank, rolling dice to see what kind of damage it did to the infantry squad next to it. It was akin to rolling six siders for armies when playing Risk or Axis & Allies. But neither of those games ever gave me the thrill of going through an encounter with my first DM. It was another level of gaming--something different that the board games couldn't possibly deliver. When I saw that 3.0/3.5 encouraged more board-game type play rather than roleplaying oriented play, yeah, I thought it was a step back. I have heard, though, from others on the net, in the past, that some actually do prefer to just roll dice and never move deeper inside the heads of their characters. That's alien to me. I guess, too, that if you started with 3.0/3.5, and that's all you know, then your preferences were set by that by which you were exposed. So, point taken.     I still struggle a bit, though, with ignoring throws, because I know the 3.5 game is built around them. If a player has his character start looking for a trap, I want to ask him what he's doing to look for that trap--and playing it out that way devalues the points he put into Search. I keep striving to find a balance between the throws and the roleplay.     EDIT:  You know, another aspect of the game lends itself better to board game style play rather than roleplaying.  That's the flatfooted rule and when to roll initiative. In AD&D 2E, a good DM put off rolling initiative and going into slow combat rounds as long as possible.  The game is best played in scenes as long as possible.... "You open the door, and  your torch illuminates a creatre next to the far wall.  First you see its eyes reflecting your torchlight, then you see it's shape and can tell that it's a goblin.  The thing squeaks at you, saying, Whattawank! "What do you want to do?" "I hold my torch up high, stopping in my tracks.  I pull my sword with my other hand and look around the room, never straying my eyes too far from the goblin." "You don't see anything else of note, but the goblin grabs your attention again when it runs to the right and picks up a club that was leaning against the wall.  Whattawank!  It says again.  What do you do next?" We're not in strict rounds here, and we won't get to them unless combat is initiaited. With 3.0/3.5, we are encouraged to throw initative as soon as a foe is in sight.  This is the only way that the flatfooted rule makes sense.  The flatfooted rule means that a defender cannot defend himself to his fullest.  This makes absolutely no sense if the DM plays a few scenes before going to rounds.  Heck, combat may not even initiative using the old school method. But, with 3.0/3.5, the correct way to play, according to the combat examples in the PHB/DMG is to roll initiative as soon as hostiles are found. Under 3.0/3.5, the correct way, per the book, to handle the encounter is to roll initiative as soon as he opens the door and sees the goblin. "You open the door, and  your torch illuminates a creatre next to the far wall.  First you see its eyes reflecting your torchlight, then you see it's shape and can tell that it's a goblin.  The thing squeaks at you, saying, Whattawank!  Roll initiative!"</blockquote>

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