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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
In Favor of 3.5, With One Reservation.
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<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 6026861" data-attributes="member: 2205"><p>Just because it lacks a dictionary definition doesn't mean you can call whatever you want old school and expect anyone to understand you.</p><p></p><p>I've actually read the quote in question in the column it originally featured in, with context and everything. It's quite clear. And it's not singular, either. Gygax made plenty of other comments in plenty of other places that reinforced that mindset.</p><p></p><p>If your contention is that it was a single line that's being misinterpreted due to being taken out of context, I heartily disagree.</p><p></p><p>Now, whether or not players in general paid any attention to that sentiment or not is perhaps altogether a different issue. But it absolutely was the official line.</p><p></p><p>No, it absolutely was not more recent.</p><p></p><p>:shrug: then you won't accept it. I don't care enough to convince you that I'm going to go research it. But that doesn't mean that you aren't wrong. The quotations are out there. Heck, you referred to one yourself.</p><p></p><p>If by that you mean to say that 1) the motto at 3e's release <em>wasn't</em> actually "Tools, not rules", 2) The Player's Handbook <em>didn't </em>say somewhere within the first couple of pages that the rules are suggestions only and that the GM is the final arbiter of how they work (paraphrasing of course; I haven't read that in years and don't remember exactly what it says), and 3) that it <em>didn't </em>specifically give direction in the DMG that GM's should feel free to modify the rules as they pleased, even going so far as to give us some advice on things to look out for, and give us an example with the case of the Witch class, then yeah.</p><p></p><p>But since actually all of those things <em>were</em> done, I'm going to go with you're just completely wrong there.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I take it back. I got curious and did some quick Google searches. Dragon #16, July '78. Hooboy, that's a venomous condemnation of the very <em>concept</em> of house-ruling or changing the rules (and this was before much of the AD&D was even in print yet!) And #26 from June '79, he's at it again--and <em>clearly</em> referring to jumping from home game to home game, not tournament games (although he does mention them too.)</p><p></p><p>And even then, I know I've read others. Those two are not in isolation. And as for 3e being specifically designed to be modified and house-ruled, try this on for size: <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20010518a" target="_blank">http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20010518a</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 6026861, member: 2205"] Just because it lacks a dictionary definition doesn't mean you can call whatever you want old school and expect anyone to understand you. I've actually read the quote in question in the column it originally featured in, with context and everything. It's quite clear. And it's not singular, either. Gygax made plenty of other comments in plenty of other places that reinforced that mindset. If your contention is that it was a single line that's being misinterpreted due to being taken out of context, I heartily disagree. Now, whether or not players in general paid any attention to that sentiment or not is perhaps altogether a different issue. But it absolutely was the official line. No, it absolutely was not more recent. :shrug: then you won't accept it. I don't care enough to convince you that I'm going to go research it. But that doesn't mean that you aren't wrong. The quotations are out there. Heck, you referred to one yourself. If by that you mean to say that 1) the motto at 3e's release [I]wasn't[/I] actually "Tools, not rules", 2) The Player's Handbook [I]didn't [/I]say somewhere within the first couple of pages that the rules are suggestions only and that the GM is the final arbiter of how they work (paraphrasing of course; I haven't read that in years and don't remember exactly what it says), and 3) that it [I]didn't [/I]specifically give direction in the DMG that GM's should feel free to modify the rules as they pleased, even going so far as to give us some advice on things to look out for, and give us an example with the case of the Witch class, then yeah. But since actually all of those things [I]were[/I] done, I'm going to go with you're just completely wrong there. EDIT: I take it back. I got curious and did some quick Google searches. Dragon #16, July '78. Hooboy, that's a venomous condemnation of the very [I]concept[/I] of house-ruling or changing the rules (and this was before much of the AD&D was even in print yet!) And #26 from June '79, he's at it again--and [I]clearly[/I] referring to jumping from home game to home game, not tournament games (although he does mention them too.) And even then, I know I've read others. Those two are not in isolation. And as for 3e being specifically designed to be modified and house-ruled, try this on for size: [url]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20010518a[/url] [/QUOTE]
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