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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1886254" data-attributes="member: 3146">Well, caster level isn't actually as rigid and uniform as you make it out to be--at least not from the point of view of characters in a game world. Things like domains, practiced spellcaster, Spellpower, Orange Ioun Stones, beads of karma, etc screw that up. I can see characters asking each other how skilled a caster they are--do their unaugmented summonings last 30 seconds, a minute, or what, but the actual interrelation between caster level, extend spell, and the various other feats and effects which I take to be common mean that, while a generalized concept of caster skill probably exists, I can't see a specific concept of caster level. Even seemingly straightforward tests like: "cast magic missile--how many bolts show up?" would generate some questionable interpretations since someone who can conjure three bolts can't necessarily cast 3rd level spells (sorcerers and practiced spellcaster) and, at the high end, there is no easily observable difference between characters of obviously different skills. Range generates similar problems since it advances differently depending upon the range of the spell and close range spells advance at a 1/2 lvl rate rather than at a 1/1 ratio. So, I'm not certain that people would readily observe enough information to quantify caster levels or would necessarily connect all of the disparate effects of caster level and separate them from the seemingly similar measures of how powerful and how many spells can be cast.Spell level, on the other hand, is quite readily discernable--especially if wizards tend to have a lot of spells in common. Either you can cast fireball or you can't. Either you can cast teleport or you can't. Casters have to know that they can fill the fireball slot with a fly and the teleport slot with a feeblemind and that a ring of counterspells can hold a disintegrate but not a finger of death. Thus the concept of spell levels is fairly intuitive. (And probably would be, even in a non-Vancian spell-point system as long as spells tended to congregate in large and discrete cost-groupings--if all 1st level spells cost 1 point, 2nd level spells 3 points, 3rd level spells 5 points, etc then that's a sensible and intuitive nomenclature as long as there aren't two point, and four point spells. X-PsiHB style augmentation might muddy the waters a little but would probably just introduce the concept of variable-level spells).Now, it seems that most people in this thread have taken that concept and run with it to the extent that spell levels are discernable but have attempted to disguise the fact that the "meta-game" knowledge is in-game knowledge as well by coming up with alternative terminology. Epic spell or "id." It refers to the same concept. First level or first circle. The only difference is that your characters are using Ultima terminology rather than D&D terminology. There's some logic to doing so if the illusion works and Ultima terminology feels more "magical" but the differences between the terms are all in our perception and reaction to them rather than in their content. (Is the lady a prostitute or a whore?) Personally, I would be tempted to run a little further with the idea and make different terminologies for different areas and organizations. In Stromgald, they refer to spell levels as "rings" and an initiate of the Ebon Hand wears a ring for every ring he can cast. Once he reaches the fifth ring, he is called a master. (And none but Lim Dul has ever mastered the tenth ring. It is said that, aquiring the 9th ring requires his personal training and none have done so without taking on the mantle of undeath). On the other hand, in Erathia, the enchanters refer to spells of the xth house, but measure their potency by the number of magic missiles they can produce. (Practiced Spellcaster is unknown in the lands of Erathia). Thus there is no formal measure of power among masters of the 5th orb for they have all arrived and are treated as equals in the great conclave. It is acknowledged that some casters master the orbs more easily than the houses but this is not seen as a difficulty. One side effect of this is that, despite Erathia's preference for enchantment magic, no member of the conclave has evocation as a banned school. In the more practical kingdom of Kailendrom, the masters of magic have charted the various levels of the spells and refer to them by the "spell level" terminology. Like the inhabitants of Stromgald, they refer to their power in levels (thus a "5th level" wizard can cast 5th level spells) but unlike them, they wear no visible sign of their power in public (though they arcane mark one star on their collar for each level they can cast to be seen by those who detect magic) because there all wizards are considered equally noble no matter what their power.Three kingdoms. Three separate terminologies loosely related to social customs (In Erathia, the libraries of the conclave hold different spell level spells in different houses, etc.)In a more scientifically modelled or unified world, one common terminology might win out but in a world where the various guilds and magical socieities are isolated from each other or are established with a long history of official power to set terminology (I'm sure the French academy still has a list of French terms for nearly every bit of scientific jargon and insist that French scientists use them) the use of one term over another would signal one's education and history.</blockquote>

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