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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
In-game debates and rules disputes: What do you do about them?
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<blockquote data-quote="hazardjsimpson" data-source="post: 2234609" data-attributes="member: 26993"><p><strong>Draconic!</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree, not only as a 10+ year GM of my current group, but as a player in another full time session, and psych major as well. The fact is that when you're playing a game (D&D) that publishes a set of rules, those are the rules for everyone, period. If you all go buy the same book and they say the same things, those are rules. Those become an agreed upon contract that everyone follows. If you decide that they're "guidlines" and what to change them, fine, but you're not playing D&D anymore, and it's total BS to claim that it is. Once you change those rules as a DM, you are changing a set of understandings that everyone at the table agrees upon when showing up to play. Saying that the DM "has no responsibility" smacks of flat-out rudeness, frankly. Do you just make up your own rules on the fly when you play basketball/baseball/anything else? Do you tend to just add math however you like because you want to? Probably not, because then you'd have the same problem: no one's on the same page.</p><p></p><p>It's a DM's right to change rules, sure. But last I checked, D&D was a social game, and the "I Am all Powerful" rule doesn't feel very social. I'm not a rules lawyer myself, but our group has an easy way to solve disputes : we freaking GET ALONG AND RESPECT EACH OTHER and everything works out. We don't have any "I Rule All" types in the group, and House Rules are a group effort that get written up on our board (we have our own website, ala EnWorld for our local group) so we can all see and post on them. From the way you post, you obviously don't have respect for your players, because you're too concerned about YOU as DM. It seems that your group misses what mine enjoys: respect.</p><p></p><p>If fact, much of your post seems to be about why YOU don't want to bother with "teaching" people, making handouts etc -- Frankly, the more I teach D&D, the more people learn and love the game. Maybe that just makes me a nicer person, but there's nothing wrong with that.</p><p></p><p>With your attitude towards your players, I'm *suprised* you don't have problems finding people to play in your games. I sure wouldn't play with you as DM, and don't know anyone in my 2 groups who would. I suspect they probably don't know anyone/where else to play, and more's the pity for them.</p><p></p><p>In closing, I do agree that it's the DM's job to entertain. But I as a player enjoy knowing the rules and the world my PC exists in, and the limitations thereof. As someone else posted, it's only reasonable to expect that a PC will have the same knowledge about their world that we do our own -- and to just undermine that willy nilly is ridiculous. If you want to run a heavy-handed Dm style and find that works for you, great -- just don't try to sell it to us that know better.</p><p></p><p>p.s. -- I've been gaming over 20+ years myself, starting with Rolemaster, AD&D 1st, 2nd Ed D&D, Traveller, Star Frontiers, TMNT, you name it. Never once have I had a DM just toss the rules at will and have it work for the group, nor have I ever installed house rules without telling the PC's first. "Forewarned is fore-arrmed" so to speak, and the PC's deserve, even have the RIGHT to know when things have changed. To pull "this spell just suddenly doesn't work like that because I'm the DM" is immature and disrespectful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hazardjsimpson, post: 2234609, member: 26993"] [b]Draconic![/b] I disagree, not only as a 10+ year GM of my current group, but as a player in another full time session, and psych major as well. The fact is that when you're playing a game (D&D) that publishes a set of rules, those are the rules for everyone, period. If you all go buy the same book and they say the same things, those are rules. Those become an agreed upon contract that everyone follows. If you decide that they're "guidlines" and what to change them, fine, but you're not playing D&D anymore, and it's total BS to claim that it is. Once you change those rules as a DM, you are changing a set of understandings that everyone at the table agrees upon when showing up to play. Saying that the DM "has no responsibility" smacks of flat-out rudeness, frankly. Do you just make up your own rules on the fly when you play basketball/baseball/anything else? Do you tend to just add math however you like because you want to? Probably not, because then you'd have the same problem: no one's on the same page. It's a DM's right to change rules, sure. But last I checked, D&D was a social game, and the "I Am all Powerful" rule doesn't feel very social. I'm not a rules lawyer myself, but our group has an easy way to solve disputes : we freaking GET ALONG AND RESPECT EACH OTHER and everything works out. We don't have any "I Rule All" types in the group, and House Rules are a group effort that get written up on our board (we have our own website, ala EnWorld for our local group) so we can all see and post on them. From the way you post, you obviously don't have respect for your players, because you're too concerned about YOU as DM. It seems that your group misses what mine enjoys: respect. If fact, much of your post seems to be about why YOU don't want to bother with "teaching" people, making handouts etc -- Frankly, the more I teach D&D, the more people learn and love the game. Maybe that just makes me a nicer person, but there's nothing wrong with that. With your attitude towards your players, I'm *suprised* you don't have problems finding people to play in your games. I sure wouldn't play with you as DM, and don't know anyone in my 2 groups who would. I suspect they probably don't know anyone/where else to play, and more's the pity for them. In closing, I do agree that it's the DM's job to entertain. But I as a player enjoy knowing the rules and the world my PC exists in, and the limitations thereof. As someone else posted, it's only reasonable to expect that a PC will have the same knowledge about their world that we do our own -- and to just undermine that willy nilly is ridiculous. If you want to run a heavy-handed Dm style and find that works for you, great -- just don't try to sell it to us that know better. p.s. -- I've been gaming over 20+ years myself, starting with Rolemaster, AD&D 1st, 2nd Ed D&D, Traveller, Star Frontiers, TMNT, you name it. Never once have I had a DM just toss the rules at will and have it work for the group, nor have I ever installed house rules without telling the PC's first. "Forewarned is fore-arrmed" so to speak, and the PC's deserve, even have the RIGHT to know when things have changed. To pull "this spell just suddenly doesn't work like that because I'm the DM" is immature and disrespectful. [/QUOTE]
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