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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2235800" data-attributes="member: 307">I'm just operating based on what you have presented. You said "I'm not going to tell you the system, just some broad strokes before the game." If you want to be more specific, be more specific. But that would run counter to your argument, so you made this weak argument instead.Thematic elements are only important to the extent that they affect content. A thematic element that doesn't affect content may as well not exist.All of it? That's like saying "I'm going to do a campaign set in the era between 1000 and 1300, but not giving any other information. For one thing, the thematic elements are wildly different depending on the era of play you are talking about: the level of power and nature magic prior to the War of Wrath is vastly different from the level of power in the Numenorean period, and both are vastly different from those elements during the War of the Ring. Your description didn't say "I'm using moral elements from Tolkien", it said "the campaign is inspired by Tolkien", and then went on to describe being "gritty". Am I to get that you draw the moral compass of the Tolkien books into the campaign, or the power level and setting information?You see, now you are doing what you claim you don't have to: you are giving me rules information to evaluate the setting and the game. This sort of information is necessary to evaluate the game, primarily because it tells me what sort of game you are planning on playing. Having said that, I would reasonably expect you to use these rules, and not just discard the Ravenloft style rules you've put forward when it suits you.But that's a far cry from your claim that you don't need to tell anyone the rules of play before the game starts. In fact, its the exact opposite.Maybe, maybe not. You assume that people will understand that the brothers Grimm fairytales will be the original versions. But on the other hand, many people don't even know that the versions they are familiar with are the sanitized versions, so your reference to them will be less than useless to convey information about your campaign. Of course, you also say that you are picking and choocing what you are bringing to the game, how was I supposed to know that (even if I guessed you were going with the original versions) you wanted to edit out the Germanic bias and crude references in the originals to provide inspiration for your game? You conveyed little information, because you didn't communicate that. If you want to say "I'm bringing in my love for European folklore and small magic and animism. I'm saying that my world is going to be haunted by fey and spirits and talking animals and trees with evil hearts." say that, don't say "I'm inspired by the brothers Grimm", because that means many other things beyond what you wanted to say.So, your game will be less gritty than your typical GURPS low-tech/fantasy game? You see, your assessment of what is "gritty" is subjective - you have a vision of what "grittier" means, but that is less gritty than many other games. So when you tell me "grittier", you fail to convey information of value, because you didn't tell me gritty relative to what. Now, when you describe what you think gritty is, then you give information, but it still isn't that gritty.Except that is exactly what you have endorsed with your position that "the Gm doesn't even have to tell players what game system he is using" mantra. If you don't want to be painted with that brush, don't wave it about as your motto.No, you're playing something, you're just not playing D&D. You are playing a version of "let's pretend".Oh get over yourself. Wanting to be able to predict the outcome of actions isn't "rule-playing", its using the rules for what they are intended - to facilitate the play between the group. If the DM routinely alters those or glosses over them simply to get a better "story" then he's using the wrong system, or he needs to get better at telling his story.The Storyteller games are deadly dull, no matter who is narrating them.No, I see the rules as being there for a reasons - they allow players to interact with the game world in a reliable manner. You see them as a hindrance, which is your problem. They are there to allow role-playing to take place. What you get when you ignore them willy-nilly isn't role playing, although a lot of hyper-pretentious people think it is. What you get is bad improvised theatre, which isn't role-playing, and it certainly isn't participating in a role-playing-game.</blockquote>

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