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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2237076" data-attributes="member: 307">It is a critical element to determining player expectations. Sometimes, you might be familiar enough with someone on a personal level to generate expectations based entirely on personality, but absent such personal conbtact, the rules are a critical element in determining what sort of game you are going to get.Did you not say that the Dm doesn't need to tell the players anything about the system? That's basically saying the rules don't matter, when clearly they do.And that's a critical element in determining what sort of game you are going to have. Your statement that you are running a game based on Tolkien gives virtually no information - because if I don't know what era or region you are talking about within Tolkien, I have no idea whether to expect my character to be a Noldor lord who can take on Balrogs and ignore mooks, or a halfling who struggles to overcome blind goblins. And that infleunces choice. Defining which one you are talking about isn't a mechanistic issue, its an informational issue, something you seem to have trouble doling out to the players.Actuially, the HD of the balrog doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is to know what sort of thing to expect. And your descriptions (as given here, until you started clarifying them with information you initially asserted was "unneccessary") quite simply don't give enough information to do so. I need to have some sort of idea how competent my character is compared to the opposition (in general). Do orcs pose a threat to me? Do trolls? Do blind kobolds? These are the sorts of things a reasonable inhabitant in most game worlds would know, and are heavily driven by the rules structure of the game.Of course, that's not what we have been talking about. What we are talking about is a DM who says "We are playing 3e D&D" and then, when the 1st level characters approach some orcs are informed that orcs have the ability to breathe fire and blink at will. Changing the rules without letting anyone know you are doing it, on the fly, just to make a "better story" is the problem.Okay.What conclusions are we to draw from these sorts of statements other than "the rules don't matter"? Since it doesn't matter what game system you are using, and don't need to bother to inform ther players, we can only conclude that, apparently, the rules don't matter.Which is tantamount to saying that "rules don't matter". I also disagree with you on one fundamental point: the rules belong to everyone at the table, not just a DM with megalomaniacal delusions about how powerful he is. When you say "I'm using the D&D system" you are telling me something. When you say "I am using the Hero system", you are tleling me something different. Saying "I am using the D&D system" and then expecting to radically modify it without bothering to tell me what you've changed is basically bad DMing.It is a precondition for them to make intelligent choices about their actions. If I don't know how the mechanics of spells work, how should I decide which spells to learn, which spells to cast, and when to cast them? The rules give guidance on these issues, guidance you seem all too willing to discard.Actually, the DM has the duty to play fair with the players. He is an arbiter, but one who should, above all, play fair, since he holds all of the cards. Besides, what a character decides to do isn't part of "the magic behind the screen", it is out in the open - and the player should have a good idea what he can expect from taking a chosen course of action. You seem to think that the ignorant, who don't know what they are doing is more fun for you, and it might be, but that just tells me you have some power issues.I heard it. You said it. You then go on to essentially say that even if DMs do that, they are great guys who have the authority to do it, and no mere player should dare to contradict their mighty sayings from on high. I see a contradiction in these stances.I remember those rules systems too. That sort of pronouncement was dumb then, and it is dumb now. If I want my character to jump, I should have a good idea how far he can jump. The jump rules aren't part of character generation, so by that sort of rule, I couldn't figure out my own capabilities ahead of time, because, apparently, PCs are too stupid to know how good they are at jumping.You think you are, but since that sort of rule was discarded by the end of the 1970s along with the detrius of many other ill-conceived rules ideas, I think the trend is very much against you. It was a silly idea then, and you thinking it is a great idea doesn't make it any less silly now.And he should let the players know what he's done to the system. Otherwise, you are just jerking people's chains. You might find people who like their chains jerked, or who are desperate enough to put up with it, but unless a DM gives out information about the changes he's made, he's likely to end up with an acrimonious relationship with his players, and a shrinking game group.Except that the DM shouldn't discard rules willy-nilly to further his "story". Because its not the DMs story. Its the group's story. And the players come to it with the expectation that the "story" will operate under certain rules, and their actions will be predictable in effect.A house ruled version, yes. But discarding the rules willy-nilly doesn't fall into this category. It isn't D&D, it's just "let's pretend" with D&D books nearby. Altering the rules ahead of time is perfectly kosher, virtually every DM does it to some degree, either for simplicity (e.g. various house rules concerning Dodge), or for thematic purposes (e.g. banning teleport to get a more travel oriented game). But if you just change the rules on the fly, you aren't really playing D&D any more.No, it isn't. The DM is the window onto the world for the players. Hiding the ball from them concerning things they reasonably should know (like their own capabilities) is poor DMing. The DMs job is to present the information to the players, so they can then take action based on that information. If you want a predetermined outcome for your "story", then you shouldn't be using PCs.Yes, it's called being a player. You have the right to expect that the rules of the game you showed up to play will be followed, unless you are told otherwise. If you didn't want to play D&D using the rules of D&D, why did you bother to show up for a D&D game?</blockquote>

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