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<blockquote data-quote="Zaruthustran" data-source="post: 277778" data-attributes="member: 1457">Well, what you're asking for is an abstraction of an abstraction: D&amp;D combat. I think that's a mistake.Meaning, the rules of D&amp;D combat (5' step, AoOs, other min-max factors) are suited to RPG combat, and don't necessarily belong in a mass combat wargame. Which begs the problem: if the D&amp;D rules don't necessarily belong, but you want the wargame to be &quot;D&amp;D mass combat&quot;, what components of D&amp;D do you include in the mass combat rules? How do you make your wargame seem like D&amp;D?Chainmail tried solve these problems by including D&amp;D races, classes, weapons, magic, and certain values (armor class), while creating new values (hits, attack bonus, a single saving throw, command points). In some cases, it kept a concept (like attack of opportunity) but changed the way it worked (which confused many, including me). So, it looked and sounded very similar, but there were enough differences that players just didn't get it.If I were making D&amp;D mass combat, I'd keep the flavor of D&amp;D but create entriely new rules, with (almost) entirely new terms. Top features:+ No record-keeping needed (mmadsen's stateless health is a great idea)+ Fast play+ No AoO's (players don't get it. Instead, just use the easier concept of Reach)+ Familiar classes, races, factions+ Keep the Command Point rules, but include a cardboard cheat sheet with every ruleset that details how CPs are spent, and what an out of command model can and cannot do+ Use inexpensive, prepainted, plastic models with a standard 1&quot; base--and print the models' Offense and Defense scores right there on the four sides of the baseNo need for that silly click dial thing. Too complex, and it's a pain in the butt to pick up and put down your models. But it's even more of a pain to have to refer to a little sheet whenever you attack, or have to constantly ask (or be asked for) a model's AC.In short, keep it simple, keep it cheap, keep it fast, and keep it D&amp;D flavored--without D&amp;D's complexity.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zaruthustran, post: 277778, member: 1457"] Well, what you're asking for is an abstraction of an abstraction: D&D combat. I think that's a mistake. Meaning, the rules of D&D combat (5' step, AoOs, other min-max factors) are suited to RPG combat, and don't necessarily belong in a mass combat wargame. Which begs the problem: if the D&D rules don't necessarily belong, but you want the wargame to be "D&D mass combat", what components of D&D do you include in the mass combat rules? How do you make your wargame seem like D&D? Chainmail tried solve these problems by including D&D races, classes, weapons, magic, and certain values (armor class), while creating new values (hits, attack bonus, a single saving throw, command points). In some cases, it kept a concept (like attack of opportunity) but changed the way it worked (which confused many, including me). So, it looked and sounded very similar, but there were enough differences that players just didn't get it. If I were making D&D mass combat, I'd keep the flavor of D&D but create entriely new rules, with (almost) entirely new terms. Top features: + No record-keeping needed (mmadsen's stateless health is a great idea) + Fast play + No AoO's (players don't get it. Instead, just use the easier concept of Reach) + Familiar classes, races, factions + Keep the Command Point rules, but include a cardboard cheat sheet with every ruleset that details how CPs are spent, and what an out of command model can and cannot do + Use inexpensive, prepainted, plastic models with a standard 1" base--[B]and print the models' Offense and Defense scores right there on the four sides of the base[/B] No need for that silly click dial thing. Too complex, and it's a pain in the butt to pick up and put down your models. But it's even more of a pain to have to refer to a little sheet whenever you attack, or have to constantly ask (or be asked for) a model's AC. In short, keep it simple, keep it cheap, keep it fast, and keep it D&D flavored--without D&D's complexity. [/QUOTE]

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