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<blockquote data-quote="mmadsen" data-source="post: 279518" data-attributes="member: 1645">There are multiple ways to handle mass combat in a D&amp;D game.&nbsp; Some seem quite abstract, but not very &quot;D&amp;D&quot; -- e.g. most mass combat systems for large wars.&nbsp; If you're just adding up points for how strong your force is, that's quite abstract, and none of the nuances (or &quot;wonkiness&quot;) of D&amp;D show through.&nbsp; Others aren't very abstract at all, just a bit streamlined -- e.g. Chainmail, or our proposed replacement for Chainmail.That's true.&nbsp; When you remove those inappropriate rules though, you want combat to play out like D&amp;D combat on a large scale.&nbsp; You want the creatures to remain roughly as powerful, and you want the PCs to interact with large armies as if the whole battle played out by D&amp;D rules -- no hand-waving for spells, magic weapons, etc.I think you need a crystal-clear mapping of D&amp;D abilities into Skirmish D&amp;D abilities.&nbsp; You shouldn't need a supplement that tells you how to translate Fireball into the new game; you should immediately know what a 5d6 attack with a 20' radius does.Chainmail tried to deliver a parallel game with its own stats but D&amp;D &quot;fluff&quot; -- the armies were composed of Gnolls, etc.&nbsp; If you can't put your PCs miniature on the table and start fighting, I don't think you have Skirmish D&amp;D.Thank you.&nbsp; I think that's the key to mass combat -- less &quot;state&quot; information to track.That's an important design goal, but how do you achieve it?&nbsp; Primarily, I think, by taking away min-maxable decisions for each unit.See my previous point.&nbsp; We don't want Attacks of Opportunity, 5' Steps, etc.&nbsp; Ideally we'd have a simple mechanic that rendered the same results with less work.Whether you come up with a new game or just a variant of D&amp;D, a thin D&amp;D veneer goes a long way toward selling figures and bringing people in, I'd think.Simplify, simplify, simplify.If you only have a few kinds of units, a &quot;character sheet&quot; card seems fine to me -- maybe even one that stands upright on a stand -- so you can see the big, bold AC, To-Hit, hp, and Save scores.That's true!Agreed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mmadsen, post: 279518, member: 1645"] There are multiple ways to handle mass combat in a D&D game. Some seem quite abstract, but not very "D&D" -- e.g. most mass combat systems for large wars. If you're just adding up points for how strong your force is, that's quite abstract, and none of the nuances (or "wonkiness") of D&D show through. Others aren't very abstract at all, just a bit streamlined -- e.g. Chainmail, or our proposed replacement for Chainmail. That's true. When you remove those inappropriate rules though, you want combat to play out like D&D combat on a large scale. You want the creatures to remain roughly as powerful, and you want the PCs to interact with large armies as if the whole battle played out by D&D rules -- no hand-waving for spells, magic weapons, etc. I think you need a crystal-clear mapping of D&D abilities into Skirmish D&D abilities. You shouldn't need a supplement that tells you how to translate Fireball into the new game; you should immediately know what a 5d6 attack with a 20' radius does. Chainmail tried to deliver a parallel game with its own stats but D&D "fluff" -- the armies were composed of Gnolls, etc. If you can't put your PCs miniature on the table and start fighting, I don't think you have Skirmish D&D. Thank you. I think that's the key to mass combat -- less "state" information to track. That's an important design goal, but how do you achieve it? Primarily, I think, by taking away min-maxable decisions for each unit. See my previous point. We don't want Attacks of Opportunity, 5' Steps, etc. Ideally we'd have a simple mechanic that rendered the same results with less work. Whether you come up with a new game or just a variant of D&D, a thin D&D veneer goes a long way toward selling figures and bringing people in, I'd think. Simplify, simplify, simplify. If you only have a few kinds of units, a "character sheet" card seems fine to me -- maybe even one that stands upright on a stand -- so you can see the big, bold AC, To-Hit, hp, and Save scores. That's true! Agreed. [/QUOTE]

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