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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sithramir" data-source="post: 975556" data-attributes="member: 12183">To make these spells last 24/7 would make you 24th level. Epic. Using extend to make them last long to get 24/7 would take a 4th level spell (can no longer compare this to 2nd level spell slots) and would require 13th or so level. Using persistant spell would make it 6th level and 11th level caster but now takes a 6th level slot (hmm better compare to those to 6th level spells). The idea is when your not that high of level the spells may last all day but what if you are attacked at night? WHOH a creative DM and hence you'd need 2 slots to keep it up 24/7 if not more. The cleric was running around with more str/con than fighter classes but not with better BAB and with no spells left at that level after casting them. PLUS he can cast them on those classes also making them more powerful hence why clerics are useful for being "buffers".  So he was still weaker in attacking terms. The fight having more than a dex being not d&d? What do you mean? I've never made a fighter without his highest stat being dex. Its called a duelist or an archer or a RANGER. Just because your idea of d&d is so one sided is irrelevant and doesn't make anything "not d&d". Your players chose cleric over fighter? They just don't play the fighter to his full potential then. Ever seen a fight come in with 4 attacks and do 120 points of damage? Your cleric using buff spells can only do 3 attacks maybe at best and has less hps to tank. Remember that spells he can cast on himself can be cast on a fighter/emulated by an item too. The power of a class is based on the player and what he choosed to do with the character. The idea is that 1min/level buffs don't stack with level like most spells do like magic missile and remove the role playing aspect of the game for someone who isn't using it for combat/something that takes a few minutes to do. (Cleric helping people lift rocks is a good example). The point is that restricting the use of a spell to mostly combat does not give more options because people may want more dex/str/con whether its a wimpy boost or not and the people who chose other 2nd level spells aren't affected anyways. Restricting something in an attempt to give more options is like "bombing for peace" or "f*cking for virginity".</blockquote>

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