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In Praise of Dice
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8172706" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I will need more information before I can make sense of this assertion. From where I'm sitting, the so-called "extremes" are "No deception/fudging" and "some amount of deception/fudging." I do not know how it is possible to find a middle ground between "none at all" and "some."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Does this mean you admit your players are merely a passive audience, to whom you give a controlled experience fixed in all ways actually relevant to the entertainment? (E.g. the magician accepting a volunteer to be "cut in half" does not actually make that volunteer any less of a passive participant.)</p><p></p><p>Or do your players actually have agency and active participation? Because if they aren't just a passive audience, the critical component of your analogy--a show put on for passive observation--fails. And it is in fact exactly the players' agency that makes such deception unacceptable.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This, at least, I can accept. If your players tell you they don't mind you fudging rolls sometimes, more power to you. I as a player would register my serious issues with such tactics, and if a majority decides in favor of DM fudging, I'd politely excuse myself from that group, due to irreconcilable differences.</p><p></p><p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p><p></p><p>Just to reiterate:</p><p>There is no goal that fudging achieves which cannot also be achieved without fudging, which is not inherently a deception (unless, as noted, the players explicitly give their consent). Literally every single desirable in-game result that you can achieve by fudging, you can also achieve without it, though I admit it usually takes a (slightly) greater degree of effort. If it is possible to achieve an end without deception, is it not better to take the non-deceptive means?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8172706, member: 6790260"] I will need more information before I can make sense of this assertion. From where I'm sitting, the so-called "extremes" are "No deception/fudging" and "some amount of deception/fudging." I do not know how it is possible to find a middle ground between "none at all" and "some." Does this mean you admit your players are merely a passive audience, to whom you give a controlled experience fixed in all ways actually relevant to the entertainment? (E.g. the magician accepting a volunteer to be "cut in half" does not actually make that volunteer any less of a passive participant.) Or do your players actually have agency and active participation? Because if they aren't just a passive audience, the critical component of your analogy--a show put on for passive observation--fails. And it is in fact exactly the players' agency that makes such deception unacceptable. This, at least, I can accept. If your players tell you they don't mind you fudging rolls sometimes, more power to you. I as a player would register my serious issues with such tactics, and if a majority decides in favor of DM fudging, I'd politely excuse myself from that group, due to irreconcilable differences. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just to reiterate: There is no goal that fudging achieves which cannot also be achieved without fudging, which is not inherently a deception (unless, as noted, the players explicitly give their consent). Literally every single desirable in-game result that you can achieve by fudging, you can also achieve without it, though I admit it usually takes a (slightly) greater degree of effort. If it is possible to achieve an end without deception, is it not better to take the non-deceptive means? [/QUOTE]
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