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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercutio01" data-source="post: 5952146" data-attributes="member: 37277">That's not how I've ever played 3E, 2E, or 1E. Indeed, high level fighters take barely a scratch from the shotgun aimed at their faces because they duck away at the last second and get a grazing wound---but they still get hit.In 4E, characters cannot take a hit, or else the entire healing system retcons everything that happened before the heal.And that is a playstyle preference that is not my own. I don't want to play cinematic D&D and have never really done so. This is why I say 4E specifically ushered in a playstyle that is not to my tastes at all. Worship at the altar of Gygax all you want. He was an interesting guy who was part of making a great game, but he wasn't the only one. It's like lauding George Lucas for the original Star Wars trilogy, when it was actually a combination of a lot of people's work. I think Gygax's ex post facto explanation for hit points was wrong. Gygax is Stan Lee to Arneson's Jack Kirby. Furthermore, Basic D&D came out before AD&D, and it's practically identical to OD&D, in that hits were obviously meant to be hits (d6 HP and d6 damage). It wasn't until Gygax did AD&D later that HP took on the nebulous explanation that they did. And, if thinking about where hit points actually came from initially (the number of hits ships could take in old wargames), it becomes obvious that Gygax's interpretation took a turn away from what they initially meant. OD&D and Basic had them as real damage. 1E doesn't. 2E does. 3E is a weird in between case in that they are both, but not at the same time. 4E appears to go back to 1E, but adds the healing surge mechanic, which creates (as I realized below) a de facto wounds/vigor system. Which is a change from previous editions.Terminator, sure. A-Team (no one ever gets hit in the A-Team, unless we're talking punches, and that's something D&D has never modeled well). Princess Bride simply doesn't belong on this list. It literally has magical healing and resurrection. Conan doesn't belong, and neither do Leiber's works. In the Errol Flynn swashbuckling movies like "The Sea Hawk" people who get stabbed, get stabbed. And die. I have played versions of Flynn type swashbuckling in 3E without changing anything and it worked perfectly well. Tell me again how I must be doing it wrong. Now who's making crap up and putting words in people's mouths? You want to know how I model people pulling themselves back in to a fight with grit and determination? By continuing to fight when they are missing hit points. There's no need at all to restore hit points in a mundane fashion to simulate fighting through the pain. Characters are already doing that when they are fighting despite missing hit points.Which is fine, but that's an Oberoni fallacy. It requires a house rule to fix something that is broken out of the gate. Let me ask this question then: If damage is in surges left, doesn't 4E then already have wound and vigor points if not expressly called that? Where HP are vigor and HS are wounds? If that's the case, why in the hell didn't that become the actual stated purpose? If healing was my only real gripe with 4E, maybe you could have made a convert out of me based on that.You could houserule a lot of stuff to make 3E play cinematically. It would probably take just as much work as it would to make 4E not play cinematically.</blockquote>

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