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In the heat of battle, is hit point loss a wound?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercutio01" data-source="post: 5955859" data-attributes="member: 37277"><p>4 x as much isn't 28 times as much, as in 4E, so yes I stand by my point that in OD&D, BD&D, and AD&D, the difference between a regular 0th level farmer and 1st level PC is minimal, especially when a 0th level farmer legitimately has the ability to kill a 1st level PC.</p><p></p><p>Not at first level they didn't.</p><p>With stupidly low percentages that ensured that even 0th level commoners routinely caught thieves in the act.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I ignored optional characters that are obviously unbalanced. Perhaps when we consider the fact that a commoner in 4E is a minion with 1 HP and all starting characters have 20+ HP you could see that the gap between 0th level commoners and PCs has grown exponentially.</p><p></p><p>Which I <strong>did point out</strong> did I not? Didn't I say that if I wanted to play a game where I didn't start out as Joe the slightly above average that I would start at level 3 or 4? I believe, in fact, that <strong><em>I said exactly that!</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Who's we? And my point is that <strong>I like those handful of sessions</strong> which aren't replicable in 4E, but so far seem to be exactly so in 5E.</p><p></p><p>But some play is at 1st level, and that style of play is ignored if we just skip to the equivalent starting power of much more powerful than a commoner, as 4E did. Low level play didn't play as low-level for me when I played it. 5E, thankfully, does.</p><p></p><p>Exactly.</p><p></p><p>That is exactly what my point was.</p><p></p><p>I dispute that completely. A 0th level character has the legitimate ability to kill a 1st level character in either of those editions, which simply is not the case in 4E. That rabble "monster" simply cannot kill the PC. Its ability scores are dwarfed by the PC. The PC is not just a bit above average. The PC starts out already a hero. That's my objection.</p><p></p><p>So far, in the 5E playtest, gameplay has gone back to where I think it should be. The 1st level party is not already a group of heroes. Indeed, in the first encounter with kobolds, my current playtest group had the fighter knocked down to 3 HP, and two others knocked down to half total HP, which honest-to-goodness felt awesome, and I'm playing one of those knocked down to half (the halfling rogue).</p><p> </p><p>We're not talking 3E here, which increased the starting power level but also added NPC class levels to try to compensate. Does that NPC have the chance to one-shot the fighter in 1e?</p><p> </p><p>Really? You really think that in 4E a rabble might be a match for the wizard? The wizard can easily kill 1/round with Magic Missile, forever. And the rabble cannot do enough damage to even really hurt the wizard, let alone kill him in one shot.</p><p> </p><p>Would it shock you to know that I actually agree with this? The prep time as DM is the major problem I have with 3E, even using random-creators for NPCs. It's the one thing I think 4E did the best, until the numbers didn't work. And I don't/didn't have the time, money, or inclination to kick in even more money to buy a book* that fixes a system that shouldn't have been broken in the first place.</p><p></p><p>*MM3, right? So the third supplement of monsters finally fixed monster math? That didn't come out until almost exactly 2 years later? I don't play a game for 2 years hoping for a fix. I play a different game instead, which I did.</p><p></p><p>And all of this really is moot because I think 5E has done extremely admirably well in bringing back my preferred playstyle, with the only exception being the healing rate, and that's already been addressed by the designers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercutio01, post: 5955859, member: 37277"] 4 x as much isn't 28 times as much, as in 4E, so yes I stand by my point that in OD&D, BD&D, and AD&D, the difference between a regular 0th level farmer and 1st level PC is minimal, especially when a 0th level farmer legitimately has the ability to kill a 1st level PC. Not at first level they didn't. With stupidly low percentages that ensured that even 0th level commoners routinely caught thieves in the act. Yes, I ignored optional characters that are obviously unbalanced. Perhaps when we consider the fact that a commoner in 4E is a minion with 1 HP and all starting characters have 20+ HP you could see that the gap between 0th level commoners and PCs has grown exponentially. Which I [b]did point out[/b] did I not? Didn't I say that if I wanted to play a game where I didn't start out as Joe the slightly above average that I would start at level 3 or 4? I believe, in fact, that [b][i]I said exactly that![/i][/b] Who's we? And my point is that [b]I like those handful of sessions[/b] which aren't replicable in 4E, but so far seem to be exactly so in 5E. But some play is at 1st level, and that style of play is ignored if we just skip to the equivalent starting power of much more powerful than a commoner, as 4E did. Low level play didn't play as low-level for me when I played it. 5E, thankfully, does. Exactly. That is exactly what my point was. I dispute that completely. A 0th level character has the legitimate ability to kill a 1st level character in either of those editions, which simply is not the case in 4E. That rabble "monster" simply cannot kill the PC. Its ability scores are dwarfed by the PC. The PC is not just a bit above average. The PC starts out already a hero. That's my objection. So far, in the 5E playtest, gameplay has gone back to where I think it should be. The 1st level party is not already a group of heroes. Indeed, in the first encounter with kobolds, my current playtest group had the fighter knocked down to 3 HP, and two others knocked down to half total HP, which honest-to-goodness felt awesome, and I'm playing one of those knocked down to half (the halfling rogue). We're not talking 3E here, which increased the starting power level but also added NPC class levels to try to compensate. Does that NPC have the chance to one-shot the fighter in 1e? Really? You really think that in 4E a rabble might be a match for the wizard? The wizard can easily kill 1/round with Magic Missile, forever. And the rabble cannot do enough damage to even really hurt the wizard, let alone kill him in one shot. Would it shock you to know that I actually agree with this? The prep time as DM is the major problem I have with 3E, even using random-creators for NPCs. It's the one thing I think 4E did the best, until the numbers didn't work. And I don't/didn't have the time, money, or inclination to kick in even more money to buy a book* that fixes a system that shouldn't have been broken in the first place. *MM3, right? So the third supplement of monsters finally fixed monster math? That didn't come out until almost exactly 2 years later? I don't play a game for 2 years hoping for a fix. I play a different game instead, which I did. And all of this really is moot because I think 5E has done extremely admirably well in bringing back my preferred playstyle, with the only exception being the healing rate, and that's already been addressed by the designers. [/QUOTE]
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In the heat of battle, is hit point loss a wound?
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