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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercutio01" data-source="post: 5956348" data-attributes="member: 37277">My point in all this is what power level the characters start at. In AD&D 2E and previously, characters started out as commoners with a bit more skill or blessed with some magic, but weren't really all that much more powerful and couldn't really risk pissing off a few people in the bar. 3E increased starting PC power, but also made class levels for starting commoners to kind of even it out so that it did roughly the same thing as AD&D and before did. 4E increased power even further, such that PCs start out already way ahead of commoners. The point of comparison is about relative starting levels. I think the numbers show that the average power level of 1st level PC in 4E is probably closer to what a 4th level PC would have been in AD&D and before, and a 3rd level PC in 3rd edition.My problem with that is I generally like starting out not already a hero who can wipe his ass with the common people in the town. I like the idea that the character while maybe a little smarter or stronger, really isn't all that much better than the people he grew up with in town. If he picked a fight in a bar, he might get his butt thoroughly kicked. I don't think that holds true in 4E.If I compare the relative hit points of characters versus commoners WITHIN EACH EDITION to determine what the starting power level of a character is, that is a fair measure of starting power. Regardless of how much you really want that not to be true. Does a 4E PC start out relatively way stronger than a commoner than in previous editions? Does this then mean that PCs are actually starting out with a higher level of power than in previous editions?If not, give me a legitimate measuring stick. I know that kobolds vs PCs is a common one, but that's not what my initial point was. In all editions prior to 4E, player characters were slightly above average. In 4E they start out already powerful heroes. I don't think there's really any denying that fact.Again, thankfully, 5E appears to have pared down the relative ability of PCs versus the people they grew up with.</blockquote>

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