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<blockquote data-quote="ThatGuyThere" data-source="post: 3410345" data-attributes="member: 36764">This is a conversation my players and I had, when they neglected a plot and an BBEG became waaaay too strong for them to handle.&nbsp; They were surprised and shaken by the events.In the discussion, I made it clear that (1) there was always a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and (2) without the chance of failure, success is meaningless.They agreed with point (2) pretty readily (although they were pessimistic about point (1)).&nbsp; Since then, they've paid a lot more attention to the BBEGs plot(s), making sure they either they're not going to succeed (and yes, I have evil guys who try stuff that's doomed to failure), or that they have time to foil it.All of that said, we're ultimately playing the game to enjoy a heroic fantasy. It's not a competition between players and DMs - if it was, DMs would win. The *story* is most interesting when the heroes have a *chance* and *consequence* of losing - and least interesting when they do.&nbsp; Dangerous balancing act, that...[Note: They ultimately did foil the BBEG, by overcoming one of his Lieutenants and slowing his &quot;war machine&quot; down for long enough to level a few times before facing him. The fact that they were originally &quot;doomed to lose&quot; made the victory that much sweeter.]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ThatGuyThere, post: 3410345, member: 36764"] This is a conversation my players and I had, when they neglected a plot and an BBEG became waaaay too strong for them to handle. They were surprised and shaken by the events. In the discussion, I made it clear that (1) there was always a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and (2) without the chance of failure, success is meaningless. They agreed with point (2) pretty readily (although they were pessimistic about point (1)). Since then, they've paid a lot more attention to the BBEGs plot(s), making sure they either they're not going to succeed (and yes, I have evil guys who try stuff that's doomed to failure), or that they have time to foil it. All of that said, we're ultimately playing the game to enjoy a heroic fantasy. It's not a competition between players and DMs - if it was, DMs would win. The *story* is most interesting when the heroes have a *chance* and *consequence* of losing - and least interesting when they do. Dangerous balancing act, that... [Note: They ultimately did foil the BBEG, by overcoming one of his Lieutenants and slowing his "war machine" down for long enough to level a few times before facing him. The fact that they were originally "doomed to lose" made the victory that much sweeter.] [/QUOTE]

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