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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Midknightsun" data-source="post: 3412467" data-attributes="member: 46459">IMO, yes, the PCs can lose.  The world is active and ripe with enemies around them seeking to rob the unwary or unable, conquer the kingdom, or even sunder the world.  I have multiple threads going on with various factions vying for mastery of the known lands.  How they deal with it is up to them, they can get involved in the political aspect of court intrigue, go to the warfront where a dark knight marches his army closer and closer to the Empire, deal with the ancient sorcerer-wyrms who have recently become active again and are trying to kill off the dragons and rot the Empire from the inside out.  Meanwhile, one of the character's henchmen was captured by slavers.  A couple of the BBEGs have made their appearances already.  One torching the PCs home base for interfering with his plans, another killing off important or much loved officials of the Empire, and smiling as the PCs try to stop him, only to find out that they are outclassed. . . .for now.However, they've succeeded in stopping a planar invasion from the Far Realm, freeing a town from evil cultisits, pushing back several initial offenses by the dark knight BBEG, saving a child who is gifted with extrordinary powers, ticking off a demigoddess (and getting away with it), fighting off multiple assassination attempts, killing or capturing several LBEGs . . . At least from what I've seen, the tension keeps them involved.  When I hear my players talk about how badly they want so-and-so's head on a platter for what they've done so far, it makes me smile, because it means they are invested.  And, of course, eventually I'll give them the chance to try.But no victory should be garunteed, or it just isn't as thrilling.  My players seem to agree, and  often check with them to see what they think about the game so far.  Frankly, if they really wanted to try something different, I'd drop it all.  But everytime I ask, they say they are having fun.Sure, sometimes they get frustrated when the BG wins a battle, but it motivates them.  And they learn that, despite being pretty potent themselves, they can't be everywhere at once.  So they're learning that even heroes need allies . . . When this campaign reaches the end, I intend to make a climactic battle where the PCs are definitely challenged.  They could lose or win, and I'll let them know before hand that some or all of them may die and then let the dice fall where they may.I don't see it as competing with them, because obviously I could win if I wanted to.  But the counter to that is that if I don't try, or purposely fudge in their favor, I'm just giving them the win.  Frankly, me and my players find this idea pretty unsatisfying.And yet I haven't killed one of them yet . . . though a few came pretty close.  They have "lost" some of the battles, however.</blockquote>

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