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Message: <blockquote data-quote="13garth13" data-source="post: 5324448" data-attributes="member: 16979">Yes, well, that is bad form (still a DMs perogative, but typically house rules are available for perusal before the game starts), although I suppose he/she could be forgiven for thinking that everyone did it that way....Now, don't get too close to reducing an argument to the point of absurdity....but depending on the circumstances, sure I might ask for a check to go up the stairs (are they slippery with blood or slime, covered with debris, etc etc.).  But minor stuff generally wouldn't require a check.....Yup, house rules should be known in advance and certainly not assumed....but I sure wouldn't hold it against a DM if he forgot to mention it....it's not good form, but it's not "Bad DMing" either.....let the DM know that in the future you'd like house-fules to be made available up front and then move on....Dude, have you ever watched the Olympics or something similar and seen a world-class athlete screw up?  Or in some cases not even make the grade to get on the Olympics team dispite previous records in the sport in question?  Believe it or not, even the best mess up once in awhile (oh, say, 5% of the time <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />), but they most assuredly do not get to succeed automatically.And no, I'm not trying to suggest that D&D should model real life (that way lies madness), but for some of us (I would say a sizeable minority in fact) the chance of failure for extraordinary actions (i.e. beyond what some peasant could accomplish) is a part of the game.  No, it's not in the RAW, and I have never claimed that it was...but for those of us who use rules like this, it enhances the fun.  There's nothing like the shouts of glee from the players and groans from me when one of my NPCs or monsters fails spectaculary at what should have been a "gimme" moment, all because I rolled a one, or conversely the groans (and chuckles, because, hey, slapstick may be low humour, but it is still funny <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />) from the players when one of their own screws up.   It's all a part of the table fun, man. I get that it really doesn't mesh with your idea of D&D and heroic fantasy, and that's entirely understandable (different strokes and all that).  But your reaction to it seems more than a little bit extreme.   It's not a deliberate attempt to screw you the player and your PC....you seem to be taking it personally.....Buddy, please.....you said that it was a bad rule, and the fact that apparently so many DMs used it confirmed your suspicions that bad DMing was rife in the gaming community.....now you may not have meant it to sound that way, but when you link that particular house rule with bad DMing....guess what, you've all but called someone a bad DM.And if you go back and reread my post to you, I think you will find that NOWHERE in the message is there even the faintest suggestion that I thought this was a universal houserule, nor did I ever attempt to link annecdotal evidence to reveal such a universality.....I think you will find that I said there were a lot of DMs who use such a rule.....a lot doesn't mean all, nor does it even mean a majority, it just means "a lot", i.e. more than you might think.Hussar, just because you don't like it doesn't make it "wrong", and I'm not sure why you keep repeating this like it's makes you right and them wrong.  It's not "bad DMing" or "wrong" to use such a house rule.....it's a bloody house-rule, and you either agree with it's usage at the gaming table when you join in, or you don't like it and you discuss it afterwards/before the game with the DM.  And if the DM overrules your objection because for him/her the rule brings some sort of flavour/atmosphere/mood to the table and that benefit outweighs your lack of enjoyment with that ONE RULE, then you can either accept that and enjoy yourself despite your objections, or you can be miserable because clearly you aren't going to enjoy that DMs game/gaming style.This doesn't mean that either you are WRONG or the DM is WRONG, it just means that you have incompatible gaming styles and you're probably not going to mesh very well....I'm sorry that you feel that because you put x number of ranks into your character that you feel somehow slighted and your choices as a player invalidated when someone requires you to roll anyway on the off chance that your character screws up against all odds to the contrary.  But that's how YOU feel, and it doesn't make it right or wrong, just out of sync with the DMs style.  As I said above, there's any number of athletes out there who might as well be superhuman compared to my levels of physical prowess, but even they occasionally make mistakes that they probably haven't made in years, and usually it's when the spotlight is on them.   So yeah, even the best have a chance of screwing up (be they athletes, doctors, astrophysicists or adventurers), but you better believe that they don't have too many successes that are automatic either.  It's not fair, but that's the way it rolls (and as I have repeatedly stated, if that sort of policy strikes you as a screw-job....well, that is your right, and I'm not saying that you are wrong for feeling that way........I don't agree, but that's because we are different people).So yes, I do feel that someone should always have a chance to fail, but not necessarily an automatic chance of success.....I don't know if that makes me a RBDM, or some sort of grim n' gritty grognard (hell, I miss the item saving throw tables....), or just someone who doesn't view the game the same way as you do, but I'm not WRONG anymore than you are.Cheers, Colin</blockquote>

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