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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7868080" data-attributes="member: 5142">No, just pointing out that your opinion about psionics is dangerously trying to masquerade as a fact. That's all.Have you answered the questions? Nope.You're repeating this bad faith argument again. I don't think you're really good at attentive listening or otherwise you wouldn't.You can express your opinion, but that does not mean that your opinion is with merit or made in good faith. I am not blaming you for anything other than not approaching this discussion with good faith and you repeatedly falling back on strawman arguments. But I look forward to you accusing others of "blaming the anti-psionic Illuminati" again when all else fails.I don't necessarily care if psionics uses spell points or spell slots or Mystic-style power augmentation, but your overall argument doesn't seem to hold much water under scrutiny. Many casters are given workarounds for these things as well. The arcane/divine focus is meant to bypass most material components as per eschew materials of old. The Sorcerer can select subtle spell for its Metamagic. The GOO Warlock does not need VSM for its telepathy as its a subclass feature. The Artificer can work around VSM with its infusions, spell storing, and magic items. Then there is the Shadow Monk and 4 Elements Monk who are already using their Ki point as spell points for their spells (equivalent to 1/3 of a level equivalent warlock's Pact Magic converted to spell points). Feats exist to help spellcasters bypass somatic components. So it seems that psionics can be different because other pre-existing casters are also permitted to be different. So what if psionics doesn't need a traditional focus, feat, or metamagic for it? Why are you so reticent about this? Furthermore, it's not like spell points aren't already an option in the DMG.Wasn't this a requirement of the wizard? Vancian or Neo-Vancian spellcasting with level 9 spells and a spellbook? As Tony says, 5e classes have been mostly about mirroring earlier editions in various ways and forms.Maybe for someone who has no interest in psionics but not for people who actually plan on using psionics.Also, [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER], no one has advocated an entirely psionics only supplement or book. That seems like a disingenuous strawman. I think most would probably expect psionics to appear in either Dark Sun, much as the Artificer in Eberron, or in a Xanathar's Part 2 which also featured non-psionic subclasses for other classes.So what if psionics were more like a Warlock's invocations? A bunch of at-will and per Short Rest powers? Because right now, I'm hearing much the same as your argument above, "spellcasting is all the same except ALL the differences we find." Lolz, no. Likely not. Wands are a big thing in Harry Potter. Sure, wandless magic exists, but it is usually something that comes with mastery of the wand form. So the aesthetic of Eleven's powers is wrong for HP-style wizards. Plus, her skill set is more restricted than what a typical wizard in Harry Potter's world would be expected to know. This is also a point of contention regarding psionics vs. arcane magic. It's the everything else that a psionic would be saddled with if they were just reclassified as wizards. Sure this is why Star Wars is Science Fantasy, but I doubt that either of us would argue that jedi and sith should use a spell slot system or typical VSM requirements for how they use the Force. Most reasonable people would agree that Force-use fits closer to the subtlety of D&D psionics (or a monk's Ki) far than it does D&D arcane or divine magic. This is because psionics has accrued a different set of aesthetics, flavor, and power source than what we typically think of as D&D arcane magic or wizardry. When we look to games like Pillar of Eternity, the Cipher is referred to as a psionist - with subclasses like the Psion, Soul Blade, Ascendant, and Beguiler - and it's different than a Wizard or other class. So it's not as if psionics and its ilk is exclusively restricted to Science Fantasy. And it already exists in Eberron and Dark Sun. So you are welcome to dismiss it as something that should be restricted to science fantasy, but its inclusion as a concurrent part of Fantasy alongside Arcane/Divine magic is a ship that has long sailed for decades now. FYI, you sound like the anti-warlord crowd and making similar sort of arguments too. If you can sympathize - and I don't know, maybe it's a false sympathy - then maybe you should not be in the business of contributing to the angst. Golden Rule and all that.</blockquote>

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