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<blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 413244" data-attributes="member: 284">They are specific varieties of touch attacks. An incorporeal touch attack is identical to a normal touch attack, with the exception that it can't ignore force based armor.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Otherwise it would just be a touch attack. And incorporeal attacks have specific, spelled out rules as well.&nbsp; Thus an incorporeal touch attack has the strengths and limitations of both a touch attacks and incorporeal attacks. It's a touch attack because it's incorporeal, and thus ignores all normal armor.&nbsp; &nbsp; However, incorporeal attacks by definition do not ignore force based armor.&nbsp;&nbsp; Pretty simple.As a physical incorporeal attack, not as a spell.It is a &quot;real&quot; touch attack that happens to be stopped by force armor, because it has &quot;incorporeal&quot; attributes.&nbsp;&nbsp; Show me a creature that has an incorporeal attack that is not an incorporeal touch attack. By your reasoning, there is no incorporeal attack in the core rules that can be stopped by force based armor, and the text in the DMG is completely pointless.&nbsp;&nbsp; Incorporeal touch attacks are simply a special subset of touch attacks that can't ignore force based armor, but ignore all other types of armor bonuses.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caliban, post: 413244, member: 284"] They are specific varieties of touch attacks. An incorporeal touch attack is identical to a normal touch attack, with the exception that it can't ignore force based armor. Otherwise it would just be a touch attack. [b][/b] And incorporeal attacks have specific, spelled out rules as well. Thus an incorporeal touch attack has the strengths and limitations of both a touch attacks and incorporeal attacks. [b][/b] It's a touch attack because it's incorporeal, and thus ignores all normal armor. However, incorporeal attacks by definition do not ignore force based armor. Pretty simple. [b][/b] As a physical incorporeal attack, not as a spell. [b][/b] It is a "real" touch attack that happens to be stopped by force armor, because it has "incorporeal" attributes. [b][/B] Show me a creature that has an incorporeal attack that is not an incorporeal touch attack. By your reasoning, there is no incorporeal attack in the core rules that can be stopped by force based armor, and the text in the DMG is completely pointless. Incorporeal touch attacks are simply a special subset of touch attacks that can't ignore force based armor, but ignore all other types of armor bonuses. [/QUOTE]

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