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<blockquote data-quote="Thondor" data-source="post: 3561583" data-attributes="member: 31955">OK now I'm getting it. I did have it originally, lost it somewhere along the way. Not really, wouldn't the archer be suffering the same restrictions as the meleeer (swordsman)?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Assuming the ranged weapons person must shoot at the end of their move, or at the begining . . .(Do I really want to be defending your system? ah well here goes)Taking a level 6 archer and Level 6 swordsman (fFull BAB characters, ie both have 2 attacks) both Human in Light armor.Use it you lose it system1)Opponents start 30 ft away,&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; a) Swordsman wins initiative, takes full move, gets one Attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp; b) Archer wins initiative, moves back 15ft makes 2 attacks. Swordsman charges 45st, gets one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp; c) Archer wins initiative, moves back 30ft makes 1 attacks. Swordsman charges 45ft, gets one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game.Given situation 1) under my system, differences are as follows&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; a) Swordsman Gets full attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; b) and c) the archer gets 2 attacks regarless of wether he moves 5 or 30ft. Situation 2) combatants start 45st awayUse-it -lose it system&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; a) swordsmen wins initiative and charges gets one Attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; B) Archwer wins initiative moves 15ft and makes 2 attacks. Swordsman charges 60ft and makes one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; c) Archer wins initiative, moves back 30ft makes 1 attacks. Swordsman runs 75 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee&nbsp; or plays the stupid 5ft game.Given situation 2 under my system,&nbsp; &nbsp; A) no change&nbsp; &nbsp; B) smart archer will move more then 15ft (see c) in order to make charge impossible.&nbsp; &nbsp; C) Archer makes 2 attacks.Situation 3) start 50ft apart, under use you lose&nbsp; &nbsp; A) same as 2 a)&nbsp; &nbsp; B) Archer Movevs 15ft gets 2 attacks. Swordsman runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee&nbsp; or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp; C) smart archer has no reason to move 30ftGiven situation 3) under my system&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; nothing changesSituation 4) start 65 ft apart.Under Use-or_you-lose&nbsp; &nbsp; A) Swordsman wins initiative runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee&nbsp; or plays the stupid 5ft game.&nbsp; &nbsp; B) Archer wins initiative. Has no real incentive to move. makes 2 attacks. Swordsmen runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee&nbsp; or plays the stupid 5ft game.Given Situtation 4) under my system&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; nothing changesThe situations don't become that different unless there is large distance in the begining and/or large discrepancies in movement. IE. Archer has 40ft speed, swordsman has 20ft or 15ft.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thondor, post: 3561583, member: 31955"] OK now I'm getting it. I did have it originally, lost it somewhere along the way. Not really, wouldn't the archer be suffering the same restrictions as the meleeer (swordsman)? Assuming the ranged weapons person must shoot at the end of their move, or at the begining . . . (Do I really want to be defending your system? ah well here goes) Taking a level 6 archer and Level 6 swordsman (fFull BAB characters, ie both have 2 attacks) both Human in Light armor. [B]Use it you lose it system[/B] 1)Opponents start 30 ft away, a) Swordsman wins initiative, takes full move, gets one Attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. b) Archer wins initiative, moves back 15ft makes 2 attacks. Swordsman charges 45st, gets one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. c) Archer wins initiative, moves back 30ft makes 1 attacks. Swordsman charges 45ft, gets one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. Given situation 1) under my system, differences are as follows a) Swordsman Gets full attack b) and c) the archer gets 2 attacks regarless of wether he moves 5 or 30ft. Situation 2) combatants start 45st away Use-it -lose it system a) swordsmen wins initiative and charges gets one Attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. B) Archwer wins initiative moves 15ft and makes 2 attacks. Swordsman charges 60ft and makes one attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. c) Archer wins initiative, moves back 30ft makes 1 attacks. Swordsman runs 75 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. Given situation 2 under my system, A) no change B) smart archer will move more then 15ft (see c) in order to make charge impossible. C) Archer makes 2 attacks. Situation 3) start 50ft apart, under use you lose A) same as 2 a) B) Archer Movevs 15ft gets 2 attacks. Swordsman runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. C) smart archer has no reason to move 30ft Given situation 3) under my system nothing changes Situation 4) start 65 ft apart.Under Use-or_you-lose A) Swordsman wins initiative runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. B) Archer wins initiative. Has no real incentive to move. makes 2 attacks. Swordsmen runs 65 feet, cannot make attack. If archer moves away provoques attack of oppurtunity, Archer either drops bow and starts melee or plays the stupid 5ft game. Given Situtation 4) under my system nothing changes The situations don't become that different unless there is large distance in the begining and/or large discrepancies in movement. IE. Archer has 40ft speed, swordsman has 20ft or 15ft. [/QUOTE]

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