Increasing Manuever variety in B09S

[Stalker0]

So my players just had two sessions with all B09S classes. In general, everyone had fun and liked the system overall.

However, the universal complaint was that there was no reason to not use their high level maneuvers. They would use them, often refresh, and then use them again. Every combat started with the big maneuvers, and I can't blame them. I thought it would be nice to come up with a way of increasing versatility in maneuver use.

Here's an example for the crusader:

Divine Insight
A 7th level crusader can use his divine strength to focus the normally random energies of his deity. As a swift action choose any maneuver you meet the prereqs for. The maneuver becomes one of your readied maneuvers and is instantly available for use. To gain this ability, you must exhaust a maneuver 3 or more levels higher than the one you received.

And for the warblade:
Combat Focus:
A 7th level warblade can survey a battlefield, carefully judging what tactics and techniques will be most powerful and when. As a swift action taken at the end of your turn, a warblade can choose 1 maneuver he has readied. He receives 1 focus point for that maneuver. He can continue building focus points every round, but can never have more focus points in a maneuver than his intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Focus points are lost at the end of an encounter.

When executing the maneuver, the warblade receives +1 to attack and damage for every focus point he has, and a +1 to DC for every 3 focus points.

 

[Nifft]

This is really the same problem that you'd face with spellcasters -- there's little motivation to save up your big effects to win the fight. Instead, you're rewarded by hitting hardest first. There are a number of ways to change this dynamic, though:

1/ Counters -- If your opponent can negate one attack, you'd better save your good maneuver until he's used that counter.

2/ Deception -- If you suspect your foe may be an illusion, you don't waste your big guns on it. Or you do waste them, and your opponent laughs at you.

3/ Waves of Attackers -- If your opponents can retreat and heal, then you're better off saving your big attacks for when you can finish one of them, rather than just trying to maximize your damage each round.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

I agree with you up to a point. While spellcasters can get repetitive as well, the fact that their spells come back per day instead of per encounter is important.

If I cast all of my big spells in the first fight of the day, I will have nothing but lower level ones for the next fight. So often a combination of different spells is useful to survive the day.

With per encounter, there is no such problem. I will have all of my best abilities back within minutes. Further, many times I can get them all back during the fight (at least with warblades, and swordsages using adaptive style, which is practically all of them).

Now in general I'm a big per encounter fan, I think its a cleaner mechanic overall, however, this is one of its major drawbacks. Methods to curb these drawbacks are useful imo.

 

[Nifft]

I agree with you up to a point. While spellcasters can get repetitive as well, the fact that their spells come back per day instead of per encounter is important.

Absolutely! Instead of having an illusion that fakes-out the group for one round each day, you'd need one that fakes out the attacker for one attack per X rounds. Same idea, different time frame.

Using bad guys who have their own Maneuvers and Counters is a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Cheers, -- N

EDIT: Alternately, bad guy who doesn't stick around long after his cover is blown and his tricks are expended -- so he flees before you can recover your best stuff. You'll see him again, but he'll have his bag of tricks ready. Similar to the above -- change the time scale.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Using bad guys who have their own Maneuvers and Counters is a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Yup-yup. NOTHING makes players more wary to use manoeuvres than seeing a Manticore Parry/Scorpion Parry on something like a Greater Insightful Strike.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't see how your advice changes the fact that my players will use the big maneuvers at the start of every combat. If I use a guy with maneuvers, then he will also use his big maneuvers at the start of every combat. Most adepts have a pretty limited list of known maneuvers, and they will use them again and again and again and again.

Further, while I respect your advice regarding changing encounters to fit Bo9S, this post was about opinions on the effectiveness of my houserule. I would love some comments about that.

 

[Nifft]

Divine Insight
A 7th level crusader can use his divine strength to focus the normally random energies of his deity. As a swift action choose any maneuver you meet the prereqs for. The maneuver becomes one of your readied maneuvers and is instantly available for use. To gain this ability, you must exhaust a maneuver 3 or more levels higher than the one you received.

This is LESS random than what the Crusader can normally do, isn't it? How will this encourage them to do anything except turn high-level Counters into low-level Strikes & Boosts? You're just boosting the most powerful Initiator class by "fixing" its one major weakness.

Combat Focus:
A 7th level warblade can survey a battlefield, carefully judging what tactics and techniques will be most powerful and when. As a swift action taken at the end of your turn, a warblade can choose 1 maneuver he has readied. He receives 1 focus point for that maneuver. He can continue building focus points every round, but can never have more focus points in a maneuver than his intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Focus points are lost at the end of an encounter.

I think I see what you're trying to do, but this mechanic has holes in it.

Try this instead:

Combat Focus -- alternate Warblade class feature
Level: 5th
Tradeoff: You do not gain a Bonus Feat at this level.
Benefit: You gain +1 focus point at the end of every round in which you strike an opponent. You may spend focus points to boost your attack roll when initiating a Strike maneuver.

Whenever you Recover maneuvers, your pool of focus points is reset to zero.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

I don't see how your advice changes the fact that my players will use the big maneuvers at the start of every combat. If I use a guy with maneuvers, then he will also use his big maneuvers at the start of every combat. Most adepts have a pretty limited list of known maneuvers, and they will use them again and again and again and again.

Then you need to stop thinking in daily resources and start thinking in action resources.

If the Warblade wastes his best Strike on an illusion, he's out that strike for at least two rounds. Make that fact matter.

One other way is to have NPCs who can fight all day too, like Warlocks. The Warlock's blast isn't going to hurt the Warblade much -- at first. But when the Warblade first misses (due to illusion), then can't see him (due to invisibility), then can't reach him (due to flight / walking on walls / whatever), the Warlock's damage adds up. Suddenly, the PCs realize they're on the losing end of the same equation that they'd been using to win.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

Combat Focus -- alternate Warblade class feature
Level: 5th
Tradeoff: You do not gain a Bonus Feat at this level.
Benefit: You gain +1 focus point at the end of every round in which you strike an opponent. You may spend focus points to boost your attack roll when initiating a Strike maneuver.

Whenever you Recover maneuvers, your pool of focus points is reset to zero.

Cheers, -- N

Definitely an interesting idea. I like the spirit of my original mechanic, but it was a little clunky. This is a lot smoother. I'll think about this one more.