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<blockquote data-quote="thecasualoblivion" data-source="post: 5879325" data-attributes="member: 59096">Looking at 3E and 4E combat, 3E had skills and utility magic. Utility magic, being abilities useable once per day(spell slot) tended to be &quot;I win&quot; buttons and generally trumped skills. Out of combat magic in 4E got nerfed hard, not necessarily to balance classes but IMO to prevent magic from trumping skills, as they were pushing skills as the primary non-combat resolution mechanism in 4E(and giving most classes fair access to skills, though not equal). Ritual magic was there, but in 4E due to its gold cost was a party resource more than a character resource.I found 4E's skill focus a bit dry, and 3E's version lopsided(after you got to higher levels, non-combat was dominated by magic). The best way to me would be for everybody to get non-combat &quot;I win&quot; buttons, in addition to skills. Wizards and such get their spells, and non-magical characters get non-magical &quot;I win&quot; abilities because they are just that good.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="thecasualoblivion, post: 5879325, member: 59096"] Looking at 3E and 4E combat, 3E had skills and utility magic. Utility magic, being abilities useable once per day(spell slot) tended to be "I win" buttons and generally trumped skills. Out of combat magic in 4E got nerfed hard, not necessarily to balance classes but IMO to prevent magic from trumping skills, as they were pushing skills as the primary non-combat resolution mechanism in 4E(and giving most classes fair access to skills, though not equal). Ritual magic was there, but in 4E due to its gold cost was a party resource more than a character resource. I found 4E's skill focus a bit dry, and 3E's version lopsided(after you got to higher levels, non-combat was dominated by magic). The best way to me would be for everybody to get non-combat "I win" buttons, in addition to skills. Wizards and such get their spells, and non-magical characters get non-magical "I win" abilities because they are just that good. [/QUOTE]

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