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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8312290" data-attributes="member: 16586">What I was mostly speaking to upthread is that in my experience the vast majority of people who play only D&amp;D likes do not see the constraints they are operating under because they do not feel constraining to them. They like the game their playing. They don't have the same experiences that someone like me has because they have never really broken with more typical play processes. I say this is someone who spent years trying to make D&amp;D fit my purposes. &quot;I fought the law and the won&quot; type experiences.I think trying to analyze games, especially ones like D&amp;D that have such strong cultural traditions as if they were not a strong culture of play in effect is deeply flawed. It's punishing other games for explicitly stating the stuff D&amp;D leaves implied. I have experienced what happens when you try to bring in techniques from other games and D&amp;D players are not ready for it. I have experienced a culture of play that is generally fine with some minor house rules, but trying to change the expectations of play has been pretty damn difficult.I have also put in the reps running Apocalypse World, Blades in the Dark, Dogs in the Vineyard, Sorcerer, Monsterhearts, Masks and others for lengthy periods of time (multiple 6+ month games). I have seen how flexible these games are over long periods of play. It takes a lot of reps too. When the game is novel it can be easy to get drawn into just what's different about it. Once you have become really practiced at the skills involved which are pretty different you get to see how flexible the games really are.&nbsp;I have also seen that while you might play a game set in post apocalyptic wasteland using D&amp;D like procedures that just does not result in anything that comes close to the type of stories we get to experience when playing Apocalypse World because the games promote completely different views of the characters. The D&amp;D type procedures are just not going to focus on the cyclical nature of violence, trust issues, and how broken characters can come together in the same way. D&amp;D type procedures might get you Beyond the Thunderdome, but they won't really get you Fury Road. Both are awesome. They're just different.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8312290, member: 16586"] What I was mostly speaking to upthread is that in my experience the vast majority of people who play only D&D likes do not see the constraints they are operating under because they do not feel constraining to them. They like the game their playing. They don't have the same experiences that someone like me has because they have never really broken with more typical play processes. I say this is someone who spent years trying to make D&D fit my purposes. "I fought the law and the won" type experiences. I think trying to analyze games, especially ones like D&D that have such strong cultural traditions as if they were not a strong culture of play in effect is deeply flawed. It's punishing other games for explicitly stating the stuff D&D leaves implied. I have experienced what happens when you try to bring in techniques from other games and D&D players are not ready for it. I have experienced a culture of play that is generally fine with some minor house rules, but trying to change the expectations of play has been pretty damn difficult. I have also put in the reps running Apocalypse World, Blades in the Dark, Dogs in the Vineyard, Sorcerer, Monsterhearts, Masks and others for lengthy periods of time (multiple 6+ month games). I have seen how flexible these games are over long periods of play. It takes a lot of reps too. When the game is novel it can be easy to get drawn into just what's different about it. Once you have become really practiced at the skills involved which are pretty different you get to see how flexible the games really are. I have also seen that while you might play a game set in post apocalyptic wasteland using D&D like procedures that just does not result in anything that comes close to the type of stories we get to experience when playing Apocalypse World because the games promote completely different views of the characters. The D&D type procedures are just not going to focus on the cyclical nature of violence, trust issues, and how broken characters can come together in the same way. D&D type procedures might get you Beyond the Thunderdome, but they won't really get you Fury Road. Both are awesome. They're just different. [/QUOTE]

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