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Indie Games Are Not More Focused. They Are Differently Focused.
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8312477" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>But that wouldn’t be an assumption, because the person has said they don’t have much experience. I haven’t done that, and you’ve assumed ignorance because I see various games differently from you. </p><p></p><p>We are not talking about the same things. You’re also being fairly pedantic. I’ll try to start from scratch later, I think, and get out of this loop. </p><p></p><p>Nope. </p><p></p><p>You’re not. Others have certainly claimed that D&D only does one thing well, for instance. </p><p></p><p>In terms of specific actions, sure. It seems it may be the case we are using most of the relevant words in this discussion differently. </p><p></p><p>Do you not have a score, that involves a set order of phases, each with its own rules?</p><p></p><p>The adventuring day isn’t a rule. Almost no one I’ve ever seen or listened to or played with uses it, and I’ve seen maybe 6 people ever claim to stick to it online. </p><p> </p><p>And in the actual rules, you can change what a long rest is, IIRC how long each rest takes, and what is regained with each rest. That changes the play loop. If I can’t regain all my spells until I rest for a week in a safe place, that is a different playstyle than if I’ll get several PHB default long rests before we go back to safety, and a different playstyle again from playing in a place that is pretty much safe, and home is down the street. </p><p> </p><p>The only actual structure there is that limited resources usually all return with a long rest, unless the game is using an optional rule that eliminates full recovery rests. </p><p></p><p><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🙄" title="Face with rolling eyes :rolling_eyes:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" data-shortname=":rolling_eyes:" /> Don’t be ridiculous. Perhaps I should go through every thread in these forums and find every statement you’ve ever made without explicitly saying it’s your opinion? </p><p></p><p>Show me where I said any game did, first. </p><p></p><p>I can’t really respond to that without you giving an example of what you do consider significant. </p><p></p><p>First, terms like “focused”, “purpose built”, and “bespoke”, don’t mean the same thing as “inflexible”. </p><p> </p><p>Second, I’ve seen no compelling argument for D&D being “less flexible than people think”, nor any real counters to the points I laid out about D&D being less procedural/prescribed than some of the games it’s being compared to. </p><p> </p><p>PBTA style games’ “moves”, especially on the MC side, are more procedural than D&D’s method of determining consequence (as I’ve said before, this is mostly outside of making attacks, which are very procedural and prescribed). </p><p></p><p>Completely changing how players see their characters, how often they can do things without severe decrease in efficacy, how players view danger, etc aren’t big changes. Lol okay. </p><p></p><p>That is not how you came across. </p><p>And no, I’m not going to write my entire gaming history for you. I did as much of that sort of thing as I’m ever willing to in the last tread related to this topic. </p><p></p><p>That was a bad example on my part because I’ve played more of other pbta games than AW itself, but; </p><p></p><p>Generate a very lethal broken world by player input/choices/playbook for post apocalyptic archetypes to interact with, usually with no planning (I say usually because IME a lot of folks ignore design intent stuff like that) before the first session. A simplification, but I’m not here to write dissertations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 8312477, member: 6704184"] But that wouldn’t be an assumption, because the person has said they don’t have much experience. I haven’t done that, and you’ve assumed ignorance because I see various games differently from you. We are not talking about the same things. You’re also being fairly pedantic. I’ll try to start from scratch later, I think, and get out of this loop. Nope. You’re not. Others have certainly claimed that D&D only does one thing well, for instance. In terms of specific actions, sure. It seems it may be the case we are using most of the relevant words in this discussion differently. Do you not have a score, that involves a set order of phases, each with its own rules? The adventuring day isn’t a rule. Almost no one I’ve ever seen or listened to or played with uses it, and I’ve seen maybe 6 people ever claim to stick to it online. And in the actual rules, you can change what a long rest is, IIRC how long each rest takes, and what is regained with each rest. That changes the play loop. If I can’t regain all my spells until I rest for a week in a safe place, that is a different playstyle than if I’ll get several PHB default long rests before we go back to safety, and a different playstyle again from playing in a place that is pretty much safe, and home is down the street. The only actual structure there is that limited resources usually all return with a long rest, unless the game is using an optional rule that eliminates full recovery rests. 🙄 Don’t be ridiculous. Perhaps I should go through every thread in these forums and find every statement you’ve ever made without explicitly saying it’s your opinion? Show me where I said any game did, first. I can’t really respond to that without you giving an example of what you do consider significant. First, terms like “focused”, “purpose built”, and “bespoke”, don’t mean the same thing as “inflexible”. Second, I’ve seen no compelling argument for D&D being “less flexible than people think”, nor any real counters to the points I laid out about D&D being less procedural/prescribed than some of the games it’s being compared to. PBTA style games’ “moves”, especially on the MC side, are more procedural than D&D’s method of determining consequence (as I’ve said before, this is mostly outside of making attacks, which are very procedural and prescribed). Completely changing how players see their characters, how often they can do things without severe decrease in efficacy, how players view danger, etc aren’t big changes. Lol okay. That is not how you came across. And no, I’m not going to write my entire gaming history for you. I did as much of that sort of thing as I’m ever willing to in the last tread related to this topic. That was a bad example on my part because I’ve played more of other pbta games than AW itself, but; Generate a very lethal broken world by player input/choices/playbook for post apocalyptic archetypes to interact with, usually with no planning (I say usually because IME a lot of folks ignore design intent stuff like that) before the first session. A simplification, but I’m not here to write dissertations. [/QUOTE]
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