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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8313801" data-attributes="member: 82106">I feel safe in saying that 2e taught me what the limits are of what will work in D&amp;D, which are pretty hard limits even in its own preferred genre. 4e allowed me to see how you could approach the EXACT SAME GENRE in a completely different way and how different the results will be! I mean, we sort of literally weren't quite sure what to make of that game on the first day we played it, but then light dawned over trad manor and the entirety of the flexibility of narrative focused and player focused play became super apparent. Traditional D&amp;D is a very fun game, but IMHO (outside of 4e if you play it as I did and some others did) it is not a really super good game for trying to introduce even PLOT. It just isn't, not even 5e, which suffers from exactly the same limitations that 2e and 3e did. Procedural 'dungeon' crawling works quite well, assuming you recover something akin to 1e's exploration rules. You just cannot reliably drive a story forward. It can 'happen', sometimes, but it is super not consistent, even for me. Both the mechanics and the material don't easily adapt to most other genres, and then there's that story thing again, most genre are really about what happens to the characters and how it happens, but you really do need some tools for that. Even 4e has a hard time doing something that isn't D&amp;D. I did see one very kick ass Star Wars game run with it (just wild amounts of reflavoring everything, no rules changes at all). Not 3e nor 5e can pull that off.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8313801, member: 82106"] I feel safe in saying that 2e taught me what the limits are of what will work in D&D, which are pretty hard limits even in its own preferred genre. 4e allowed me to see how you could approach the EXACT SAME GENRE in a completely different way and how different the results will be! I mean, we sort of literally weren't quite sure what to make of that game on the first day we played it, but then light dawned over trad manor and the entirety of the flexibility of narrative focused and player focused play became super apparent. Traditional D&D is a very fun game, but IMHO (outside of 4e if you play it as I did and some others did) it is not a really super good game for trying to introduce even PLOT. It just isn't, not even 5e, which suffers from exactly the same limitations that 2e and 3e did. Procedural 'dungeon' crawling works quite well, assuming you recover something akin to 1e's exploration rules. You just cannot reliably drive a story forward. It can 'happen', sometimes, but it is super not consistent, even for me. Both the mechanics and the material don't easily adapt to most other genres, and then there's that story thing again, most genre are really about what happens to the characters and how it happens, but you really do need some tools for that. Even 4e has a hard time doing something that isn't D&D. I did see one very kick ass Star Wars game run with it (just wild amounts of reflavoring everything, no rules changes at all). Not 3e nor 5e can pull that off. [/QUOTE]

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