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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8317177" data-attributes="member: 82106">Right, but BRP still has the same issue as 5e, there is no 'valence' to checks. Its core process is basically identical, the GM describes a scene, players invoke skills or attributes as checks to carry out specific actions; "I lift the chair." and the GM determines a difficulty, the player rolls, and either succeeds or fails, possibly with a level of success (the GM is not bound by those, at least in the edition of BRP I own, they are situationally useful basically). It is up to the GM exactly what a success or failure accomplishes/entails, and how often or many checks will be required to achieve a fictional goal/state desired by the players. As with 5e, this is only really more specifically elaborated for combat. I'm not sure about 'social actions', there are MANY 'social' skills. I'll accept that the most recent version of BRP (I don't even recall if that is what I have or not, I bought it a few years ago) may have some added rules. Still, given the fully GM-arbitrated and mediated nature of the BRP process, how much can it help? I guess it could get as intricate as the combat system, that would be something.I found the skill system in BRP to be actually a lot less useful than the 5e one. I give 5e credit for one thing here, it learned from 4e that a very short list of very general skills is a lot better than BRP's laundry list. I mean, what skill do I use in BRP? Negotiation, Sociology, Appraisal, Archaeology, Mysticism, or there are even 3 or 4 other candidates when I want to bargain with an Arab trader to see what price I can get for an artifact? Even just executing simple physical tasks can often plausibly be covered by 3 or more skills, and even though these different skills overlap, a high expertise in one bears no relation to the next! Depending on which one the GM arbitrarily tells you to roll for your chances could be 90% or 5%!!!! It is a hot mess! I did play a one-shot of the latest CoC, and I see they have pruned the skill list down very heavily, but it still seemed exceedingly clunky and basically obsolete RPG design. Personally, I won't use BRP again, there are vastly better engines. If I was going for a classic GM driven game I would think something like Cypher System would be vastly better (but I still would not use it over something like a PbtA variant).Well, the DMG has some options to add 'level of success', but as has been discussed extensively in various threads of late, that is still toothless because of the core structure of how checks work in 5e, they simply don't MEAN anything (except in combat)!Right, but just like d20 Modern, or just d20 system in general, there were many games that jumped on that bandwagon early in 5e, but pretty much all the 'd20 variant of X' sort of sank without a trace. I don't know of a single game that made a d20 conversion that didn't go back to its original design immediately after. I'm sure you can do quite a few variations on D&D, but it is still D&D!</blockquote>

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