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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5815564" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>Well, I'm the DM that has to come up with stuff so that it isn't worthless, and I'm tired of the amount of mental effort it takes for such little reward. Oh I can do it easily enough, but to make it seem natural in play is difficult. Albeit, part of this is because I have a larger group, and part of it is because we try to avoid party splits whenever possible. So some of the more obvious solutions don't work as well for us as they would for a more traditional group. But that's part of my point--the rules don't scale well here. If you don't split, the opportunities to need a third guy to roll Diplomacy are not often very organic in play.</p><p> </p><p>I do like the Burning Wheel take on this problem, where its version of "helping" is a bit more valuable (because of the relatively narrow range of results), but mainly because it systematically encourages the helper to get sucked into the fiction surrounding the roll. With the various d20 options, we have to fight to make that aid roll seem to matter all that much in most contexts. Activity on a sailing ship is one notable exception, because you can picture the different activities more readily.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5815564, member: 54877"] Well, I'm the DM that has to come up with stuff so that it isn't worthless, and I'm tired of the amount of mental effort it takes for such little reward. Oh I can do it easily enough, but to make it seem natural in play is difficult. Albeit, part of this is because I have a larger group, and part of it is because we try to avoid party splits whenever possible. So some of the more obvious solutions don't work as well for us as they would for a more traditional group. But that's part of my point--the rules don't scale well here. If you don't split, the opportunities to need a third guy to roll Diplomacy are not often very organic in play. I do like the Burning Wheel take on this problem, where its version of "helping" is a bit more valuable (because of the relatively narrow range of results), but mainly because it systematically encourages the helper to get sucked into the fiction surrounding the roll. With the various d20 options, we have to fight to make that aid roll seem to matter all that much in most contexts. Activity on a sailing ship is one notable exception, because you can picture the different activities more readily. [/QUOTE]
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