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<blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 2449849" data-attributes="member: 2209">I'm trying to find the rules on tripping fliers but not having any luck.Here is the stuff on flying tactically, tripping, and general flight. Anybody know where the rules on tripping fliers is explicitly dealt with? I can picture a wolf grabbing a flier by the throat and throwing it to the ground to be prone, but that's not how Indy and Shayuri seem to be seeing it.Tactical Aerial MovementOnce movement becomes three-dimensional and involves turning in midair and maintaining a minimum velocity to stay aloft, it gets more complicated. Most flying creatures have to slow down at least a little to make a turn, and many are limited to fairly wide turns and must maintain a minimum forward speed. Each flying creature has a maneuverability, as shown on Table: Maneuverability. The entries on the table are defined below.Minimum Forward Speed: If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling. If this distance brings it to the ground, it takes falling damage. If the fall doesn’t bring the creature to the ground, it must spend its next turn recovering from the stall. It must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it takes falling damage. Otherwise, it has another chance to recover on its next turn.Hover: The ability to stay in one place while airborne. Move Backward: The ability to move backward without turning around.Reverse: A creature with good maneuverability uses up 5 feet of its speed to start flying backward.Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated distance.Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability can use some of its speed to turn in place.Maximum Turn: How much the creature can turn in any one space. Up Angle: The angle at which the creature can climb.Up Speed: How fast the creature can climb.Down Angle: The angle at which the creature can descend.Down Speed: A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal flying speed.Between Down and Up: An average, poor, or clumsy flier must fly level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing. Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening distance of level flight.Table: Maneuverability&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Maneuverability&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Perfect&nbsp; &nbsp; Good&nbsp; &nbsp; Average&nbsp; &nbsp; Poor&nbsp; &nbsp; ClumsyMinimum forward speed&nbsp; &nbsp; None&nbsp; &nbsp; None&nbsp; &nbsp; Half&nbsp; &nbsp; Half&nbsp; &nbsp; HalfHover&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; NoMove backward&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; NoReverse&nbsp; &nbsp; Free&nbsp; &nbsp; –5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; NoTurn&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; 90º/5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º/5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º/5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º/10 ft.Turn in place&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; +90º/–5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; +45º/–5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; No&nbsp; &nbsp; NoMaximum turn&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; 90º&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º&nbsp; &nbsp; 45ºUp angle&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; 60º&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º&nbsp; &nbsp; 45ºUp speed&nbsp; &nbsp; Full&nbsp; &nbsp; Half&nbsp; &nbsp; Half&nbsp; &nbsp; Half&nbsp; &nbsp; HalfDown angle&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; Any&nbsp; &nbsp; 45º&nbsp; &nbsp; 45ºDown speed&nbsp; &nbsp; Double&nbsp; &nbsp; Double&nbsp; &nbsp; Double&nbsp; &nbsp; Double&nbsp; &nbsp; DoubleBetween down and up&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 5 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; 10 ft.&nbsp; &nbsp; 20 ft.TRIPYou can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks.If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you.Avoiding Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Improved Trip feat, or if you are tripping with a weapon (see below), you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity for making a trip attack.Being Tripped (Prone): A tripped character is prone. Standing up is a move action.Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount.Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity.If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.Flight (Ex or Su): A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Voadam, post: 2449849, member: 2209"] I'm trying to find the rules on tripping fliers but not having any luck. Here is the stuff on flying tactically, tripping, and general flight. Anybody know where the rules on tripping fliers is explicitly dealt with? I can picture a wolf grabbing a flier by the throat and throwing it to the ground to be prone, but that's not how Indy and Shayuri seem to be seeing it. Tactical Aerial Movement Once movement becomes three-dimensional and involves turning in midair and maintaining a minimum velocity to stay aloft, it gets more complicated. Most flying creatures have to slow down at least a little to make a turn, and many are limited to fairly wide turns and must maintain a minimum forward speed. Each flying creature has a maneuverability, as shown on Table: Maneuverability. The entries on the table are defined below. Minimum Forward Speed: If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling. If this distance brings it to the ground, it takes falling damage. If the fall doesn’t bring the creature to the ground, it must spend its next turn recovering from the stall. It must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it takes falling damage. Otherwise, it has another chance to recover on its next turn. Hover: The ability to stay in one place while airborne. Move Backward: The ability to move backward without turning around. Reverse: A creature with good maneuverability uses up 5 feet of its speed to start flying backward. Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated distance. Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability can use some of its speed to turn in place. Maximum Turn: How much the creature can turn in any one space. Up Angle: The angle at which the creature can climb. Up Speed: How fast the creature can climb. Down Angle: The angle at which the creature can descend. Down Speed: A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal flying speed. Between Down and Up: An average, poor, or clumsy flier must fly level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing. Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening distance of level flight. Table: Maneuverability Maneuverability Perfect Good Average Poor Clumsy Minimum forward speed None None Half Half Half Hover Yes Yes No No No Move backward Yes Yes No No No Reverse Free –5 ft. No No No Turn Any 90º/5 ft. 45º/5 ft. 45º/5 ft. 45º/10 ft. Turn in place Any +90º/–5 ft. +45º/–5 ft. No No Maximum turn Any Any 90º 45º 45º Up angle Any Any 60º 45º 45º Up speed Full Half Half Half Half Down angle Any Any Any 45º 45º Down speed Double Double Double Double Double Between down and up 0 0 5 ft. 10 ft. 20 ft. TRIP You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller. Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks. If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you. Avoiding Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Improved Trip feat, or if you are tripping with a weapon (see below), you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity for making a trip attack. Being Tripped (Prone): A tripped character is prone. Standing up is a move action. Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount. Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped. Flight (Ex or Su): A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists. [/QUOTE]

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