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Inequality of Skills
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 707333" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Gunslinger: That's fine, but how are you going to know whether or not you succeeded in tying the knot unless you use it? </p><p></p><p>And as I pointed out, 'using' the knot in a condition when there is no penalty for failure - that is, you give the knot a good yank before you go over the edge - depends on your ability to duplicate the conditions the knot will experience when you do go over the edge. To a certain extent, knowing what those conditions are involves knowledge of ropes, which brings us into a circle - you can't tie the rope well unless you know ropes, and you can't judge the quality of the knot unless you know ropes. For instance, leaning your full weight against the knot and pulling with no sign of slipping might work perfectly fine for a short drop, but could well get you killed on a longer one. The longer the rope, the more your weight is amplified on the rope so that on a long repell the rope and the knot needs to hold AT LEAST three times your full weight. Most people can't apply three times thier own weight in force for any significant period by themselves, and people that don't know rope probably don't even realize that they need to. In other words, you might well _think_ you've done a good enough job if you don't have 'rope use' as a skill, but an experienced knot tier will look at your rope and realize it is going to slip.</p><p></p><p>If you don't have 'rope use' as a skill IRL, I'm not sure I'm going to buy your arguement. If you are an experienced repeller and you think the average untrained person can tie knots that are safe every time if they only take a few minutes to do so, then I'll be willing to hear your arguement out. But I'm personally not going to trust my life on a rope to someone's knot who has no training with rope.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 707333, member: 4937"] Gunslinger: That's fine, but how are you going to know whether or not you succeeded in tying the knot unless you use it? And as I pointed out, 'using' the knot in a condition when there is no penalty for failure - that is, you give the knot a good yank before you go over the edge - depends on your ability to duplicate the conditions the knot will experience when you do go over the edge. To a certain extent, knowing what those conditions are involves knowledge of ropes, which brings us into a circle - you can't tie the rope well unless you know ropes, and you can't judge the quality of the knot unless you know ropes. For instance, leaning your full weight against the knot and pulling with no sign of slipping might work perfectly fine for a short drop, but could well get you killed on a longer one. The longer the rope, the more your weight is amplified on the rope so that on a long repell the rope and the knot needs to hold AT LEAST three times your full weight. Most people can't apply three times thier own weight in force for any significant period by themselves, and people that don't know rope probably don't even realize that they need to. In other words, you might well _think_ you've done a good enough job if you don't have 'rope use' as a skill, but an experienced knot tier will look at your rope and realize it is going to slip. If you don't have 'rope use' as a skill IRL, I'm not sure I'm going to buy your arguement. If you are an experienced repeller and you think the average untrained person can tie knots that are safe every time if they only take a few minutes to do so, then I'll be willing to hear your arguement out. But I'm personally not going to trust my life on a rope to someone's knot who has no training with rope. [/QUOTE]
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