Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- Pocket Sized Adventures! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed for 1-2 game sessions.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shadowlore" data-source="post: 2629273" data-attributes="member: 9509">Then the only "difference" is duration of the damage/penalty for they achieve the same thing: your strength score goes down. It is "short term ability damage". It only matters here due to the "penalty stack". If it cuts down your str score, a second blast will do more. So if the 18 fighter w/STR of 18 gets hit for 7, his STR will be (for the duration) 11. Next round he gets hit again, this time for 4. Now his STR is (for the duration)  7. If it is a STR penalty, then only the highest "hit" matters. But since it is not modifying your STR-based rolls, it arguably isn't a "penalty" for stacking. But we'll set that aside as it isn't needed and can get into semantics games Besides that, I'm not arguing for it anyway. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> So moving along (I still think the "str dmg" should be excised unless it is str damage).Either way, sapping that 18STR fighter down to 7 is still putting him in a world of hurt if you've got melee friends, and is doable w/o stacking RoEnfeeblement. So instead follow RoEnfeeblement with RoExhastion. Different sources so they are "stackable". The penalties are unnamed and thus do stack with other unnamed penalties (just like bonuses).Or be a right arse and follow it with (enervation/bestow curse) since you've all but neutered his ability to hurt you too much (your Arti does have an AC of 18-20+, right <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ) in melee.Arguably for the mid-level artificer, maximized enervation (from wand) is more devastating. It specifically states that the negative levels stack, so you'd get a -4 to all ability checks, skill checks, attack, damage, efective caster level (lost spell levels/slots), etc.. Although a maximized RoEnfeeblement at 6th level artificer would do 11 points of dmg/penalty to the target's strength score. Odds are the 18 STR fighter now can't support his own armor and equipment between those two. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />Then you hit him again. Again, no Save but SR allowed. Eight negative levels in two rounds.. ouch. For the cost of ... what, 10 charges? I'd pay that one. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Now that you've got him hurting, hit him with MaxRoEnfeeblement next round. At a minimum he's got a -8 to all rolls, his str is 11 points down, and if spellcaster he's lost something like 3-4 levels of spell slots.We are now at three rounds.Still not enough? Go ahead and tag him with Ray of Exhaustion. With the level drain he's not likely making his Fort save, so you'll drop his strength down another -6 to str and a -6 to Dex, plus he can only move at half his speed. Provided of course it ain't a LG Warforged. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So at four rounds your BBGG (the OP on the weapon buffs clearly targeted LG) is in this predicament:down 17 strength - if He's normally a STR 18 fighter, for example, he is now str 1, a penalty of -5 thus his atatcks are at -13, a net change of 17. - he also would have lost most of his fighter feat access (to the extent it matters atm) from the first shot since a lot of them require STR13 or moredown 6 dexterity - May well have lost dex-based figther feats here, too. Hmmm, maybe RofExhaustion is better first. - assuming he had a dex bonus to AC, it's mostly gone now if not, no loss except to reflex saves. Tag him w/fireball. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />moves at half speed  - or less since he can't carry his own armor and equipment now   it could be argued that at str 1 he is over heavy load (7-10lbs) - arguably carrying twice your max load, str1, and all you might be able to argue the victim is helpless and qualifies for a coup de grace.8 negative levels (-8 to all rolls, lost slots if applicable)If your melee friends can't finish him off yet (could happen), drop a bestow curse on him. Take 6 off his STR or CON, whichever is above 6. Remember kids, loss of 6 con even if temporary can result in loss of 3 hitpoints per HD (since it is retroavtive) until it comes back (assuming  he survives). And if that isn't enough, you CAN critical on Enevervation for double damage. Should you do that ... well party on dude, you've dealt 12 negative levels in a single round. Gods forbid you crit both of them (I've seen multiple 20-nats in a single round from a single person so it is possible) for 16 negative levels in a single round. Follow it up with Phantasmal Killer and finish him off at that point.Then burn an AP and infusion on vicious or bane for the +2 heavy mace and lay waste to him for at least 2d8+4d6+2STR/round. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" /> Or turn your attention to another of the opposing force and ask who wants some of that?  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Total time: 6 roundsCost: a few scrolls and/or charges from wands, maybe a touch of XP (depending on methods used), one AP and one infusion.Or if time is of the essence:Round 1: quickened from wand of Maximized enervation (5 charges) (-4 levels)Round 1: normal from wand of max enervation 1 charge (-4 levels: total -8 levels)Round 2: quickened applied to a maximized wand of RofExhaustion (5 charges) (-8 levels, probably -6 str/dex exhaustion)Round 2: maximized RoEnfeeblement wand (1 charge) (-8 levels, probably -6 dex, -17str exhaustion)Total cost:12 charges over four wands, no AP, no additional GP expenditure.Seeing your DM's (and the party's!) BBGG lying crippled on the floor at the feet of your Artificer in two rounds without using "Blastificer" damage stacking. Priceless. Wait, what's the concern about the bane, axiomatic, unlawful .... etc. weapon stack that takes 10+ rounds and expends 9 action points again? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Granted, if the foe has good SR this changes things a bit. Circumstances may change the order. Foe advancing on your position with noone to intervene but you go first? Hit him with the Exhaustion first, it'll slow him down. Then do a full move to put more distance between you. Now you've got time to do some nasty crippling as above.Groovy, baby. Groovy.I think my math is correct (and memory), but it's been a 15 hour shift, so I apologize if it's off.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> But back to the original topic, yes I'd allow it. It isn't broken IMO.</blockquote>

Verification