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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6410445" data-attributes="member: 2011">I told you why. 1) Because Delay slows up the game. 2) Because Delay mixed with the new rules on "move attack move" make those rules even stronger. 3) Because Delay mixed with the stronger surprise round (all actions instead of just one) makes the surprise round even stronger.All three of these reasons apply to a "just allow Delay the first round houserule", as well as a "just put Delay back in houserule". The reasons are the same.And, it is not a disadvantage to have a high initiative. It's part of the current situation. You turn, what do you do? I want to do x, but I cannot yet do it. For a wizard wanting to cast a fireball, an early initiative is great. For a rogue wanting to wait until the fighter gets into position, an early initiative (core rules without delay) is not great.On the other hand, do you put in special rules for the wizard so that he can get the perfect positioning from his fireball? No. If the player playing the wizard either includes a PC or two into his fireball, or he is forced to get fewer foes, or to do something different.I see no difference for the rogue. He is forced to do something different early on in the surprise or first round if he rolls well.Things sometimes do not work out the best way for a given PC. I play a wizard and the battlefield is rarely exactly how I want it to be. I don't get frustrated about it (frustrated being the word you used to describe your players), I just deal with the situation as is.So if I were the DM of your group, I would tell the players who want to Delay in 5E to either Ready, or deal with it. So what if the first attack of the rogue does not have sneak attack damage in round one. The current situation does not allow for that. Just like many other rounds for many other PCs. It happens all of the time.From a game mechanic POV, you are correct. A number is changed.From a "It's my turn next, I will fireball those guys, opps, the delaying PC now ran in front of me" POV, it's weird. If one considers actions to be simultaneous like in the real world (which many people do, it's just artificially segregated into a game term called turns), then the delaying PC did not know when to move up and attack, but I was going to fireball with or without another foe in the area. In other words, I start my fireball, I'm casting it, another foe moves in, AT THAT POINT my fellow PC now knows to move, and he gets to move and act before I do, even though in a simultaneous world (i.e. real world), I would have cast my spell before he even took a single step because he had to wait for the new foe to show up before he decided to move and attack.Delay has always been that way. Implausible and only in the game system for turn based game mechanics reasons. It's now removed for certain reasons and adding it back in actually makes some classes stronger than they are in the core system.</blockquote>

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