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<blockquote data-quote="Pour" data-source="post: 6216218" data-attributes="member: 59411"><p>I'll add 13th Age to that list of games that hewn away from 'your dad's D&D', and yet through presentation, PR, and merit of their designers alone they're welcomed with open arms and a flare of trumpets. Looking over the list above, it just makes the wonder, how many people really dislike 4e and how many people actually just feel cheated, snubbed, peer-pressured, aesthetically turned-off by 4e's looks, want to belong to a prolific, 'officially' supported community, like buying stuff monthly, like 3rd party, hold loyalty to past designers, buy in to the 'WoW' or 'for new-age kids' hype, enjoy hating on something or being 'right', annual layoffs, terrible technology and customer support, canceled books and failed promises, or any combination which turned them against 4e. Was it really the rules? Was the game ever allowed to succeed?</p><p> </p><p>I'm going to say the game itself didn't have nearly as much with its underperformance than it really 'should' have, if you believe a game's merit should be based on... well, the game. It was not given a fair shake. It was not properly presented, sustained, or supported. 4e is forever the blacksheep edition, the one some people will always roll their eyes at or cringe, and it's such a shame. I say this a lot, but it's the edition not even the designers really got till it was so late that by the time decent support and adventures began they pulled the plug and turned efforts toward 5e. We should have seen it coming. I remember, the day before 5e's announcement, the silly and exuberant notion that they were going to clean everything up in a 4.5 Edition. Hah!</p><p></p><p>I'm not looking for any sympathy or anything. And I'm sure many people didn't like it for the rules, just not all that currently decry and despise it. Not by a longshot. But hey, despite it all, a solid fan community, small, yes, but talented, formed around the edition. The forums became an essential part to its continued playability, at least for me. A few fan efforts really helped me make the most of it and the wisdom of dozens of posters. And I have a few 4e games that will be going on for awhile yet.</p><p> </p><p>Admittedly, I'm turning sights to 13th Age and checking out a few other systems right this moment. If anything, 4e's treatment and the advent of 5e have only helped me find the gumption to check out other offerings. Definitely one of the '5e looks like more work than necessary to find the play experience I want'.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pour, post: 6216218, member: 59411"] I'll add 13th Age to that list of games that hewn away from 'your dad's D&D', and yet through presentation, PR, and merit of their designers alone they're welcomed with open arms and a flare of trumpets. Looking over the list above, it just makes the wonder, how many people really dislike 4e and how many people actually just feel cheated, snubbed, peer-pressured, aesthetically turned-off by 4e's looks, want to belong to a prolific, 'officially' supported community, like buying stuff monthly, like 3rd party, hold loyalty to past designers, buy in to the 'WoW' or 'for new-age kids' hype, enjoy hating on something or being 'right', annual layoffs, terrible technology and customer support, canceled books and failed promises, or any combination which turned them against 4e. Was it really the rules? Was the game ever allowed to succeed? I'm going to say the game itself didn't have nearly as much with its underperformance than it really 'should' have, if you believe a game's merit should be based on... well, the game. It was not given a fair shake. It was not properly presented, sustained, or supported. 4e is forever the blacksheep edition, the one some people will always roll their eyes at or cringe, and it's such a shame. I say this a lot, but it's the edition not even the designers really got till it was so late that by the time decent support and adventures began they pulled the plug and turned efforts toward 5e. We should have seen it coming. I remember, the day before 5e's announcement, the silly and exuberant notion that they were going to clean everything up in a 4.5 Edition. Hah! I'm not looking for any sympathy or anything. And I'm sure many people didn't like it for the rules, just not all that currently decry and despise it. Not by a longshot. But hey, despite it all, a solid fan community, small, yes, but talented, formed around the edition. The forums became an essential part to its continued playability, at least for me. A few fan efforts really helped me make the most of it and the wisdom of dozens of posters. And I have a few 4e games that will be going on for awhile yet. Admittedly, I'm turning sights to 13th Age and checking out a few other systems right this moment. If anything, 4e's treatment and the advent of 5e have only helped me find the gumption to check out other offerings. Definitely one of the '5e looks like more work than necessary to find the play experience I want'. [/QUOTE]
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