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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 5878602" data-attributes="member: 6674889"><p><strong>Archetypes!</strong></p><p></p><p>Please, something resembling this. It's the reason our groups love PF so much. Fighters feel quite a bit different than one another, so do clerics for that matter. </p><p></p><p>Thankfully I've got my beastmorph alchemist to play on saturday. Class design is something competent designers should do. Balance is good, but not the penultimate god of D&D. And I disagree with XP being unified, wholeheartedly. A doctor doesn't reach level 2 until ten years of education, probably doesn't even have a single patient before 5, even then as a student practitioner. What I'm saying is : not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, or play a wizard. </p><p></p><p>There is NO balance possible between a flying caster and a fighter on the ground, depending on the situation to be overcome. Balance should be in terms of overall utility, not necessarily damage over their lives (I'd be in favor of fighters getting more, all things considered). A smart wizard will get more XP to fill his insane XP levelling requirements by creative use of his spells and MIND. Simply blasting enemies should be low XP yield stuff, akin to a fighter just swinging his sword at paltry orcs. Blowing up an incoming army with a fireball? Sure, that's okay. But getting them stuck in mud then forcing them to negotiate a peace treaty, that's thinking big. Blaster spells are the low lying fruit in AD&D. DMs should be encouraged to reward such play less than truly creative problem solving. A fighter would get rewarded more for swinging on that chandelier onto the dragon's back, and holding on for three rounds while it tried to shake him off, while the rest of the group reloads the balista and the wizard freezes some henchmen behind a wall of ice over there.</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying is, after my experience with 4e, I believe balance is a LIE. I think there's no such thing, per se. There is no equality. The classes should do what they do, and well, and there should be mechanical reasons for them to team up. Without a meat-shield, the wizard should get stomped, fast. He should have to plan out when and where to use his spells. The cleric should research what poisons there are in the jungle ahead, but one thing 4e did well for clerics was make their healing a minor action. Yesssssss.</p><p></p><p>Even though I loved my PF dwarf cleric, I specced him to be able to fight here and there but he usually had to save his standard action for spells, regardless of my love for Hand of the Acolyte, hurling his BattleAxe. </p><p></p><p>Crit cards from PF are also super fun. But confirming crits is lame/boring. You often get all excited for nothing. Don't like that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 5878602, member: 6674889"] [b]Archetypes![/b] Please, something resembling this. It's the reason our groups love PF so much. Fighters feel quite a bit different than one another, so do clerics for that matter. Thankfully I've got my beastmorph alchemist to play on saturday. Class design is something competent designers should do. Balance is good, but not the penultimate god of D&D. And I disagree with XP being unified, wholeheartedly. A doctor doesn't reach level 2 until ten years of education, probably doesn't even have a single patient before 5, even then as a student practitioner. What I'm saying is : not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, or play a wizard. There is NO balance possible between a flying caster and a fighter on the ground, depending on the situation to be overcome. Balance should be in terms of overall utility, not necessarily damage over their lives (I'd be in favor of fighters getting more, all things considered). A smart wizard will get more XP to fill his insane XP levelling requirements by creative use of his spells and MIND. Simply blasting enemies should be low XP yield stuff, akin to a fighter just swinging his sword at paltry orcs. Blowing up an incoming army with a fireball? Sure, that's okay. But getting them stuck in mud then forcing them to negotiate a peace treaty, that's thinking big. Blaster spells are the low lying fruit in AD&D. DMs should be encouraged to reward such play less than truly creative problem solving. A fighter would get rewarded more for swinging on that chandelier onto the dragon's back, and holding on for three rounds while it tried to shake him off, while the rest of the group reloads the balista and the wizard freezes some henchmen behind a wall of ice over there. What I'm saying is, after my experience with 4e, I believe balance is a LIE. I think there's no such thing, per se. There is no equality. The classes should do what they do, and well, and there should be mechanical reasons for them to team up. Without a meat-shield, the wizard should get stomped, fast. He should have to plan out when and where to use his spells. The cleric should research what poisons there are in the jungle ahead, but one thing 4e did well for clerics was make their healing a minor action. Yesssssss. Even though I loved my PF dwarf cleric, I specced him to be able to fight here and there but he usually had to save his standard action for spells, regardless of my love for Hand of the Acolyte, hurling his BattleAxe. Crit cards from PF are also super fun. But confirming crits is lame/boring. You often get all excited for nothing. Don't like that. [/QUOTE]
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