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<blockquote data-quote="[OMENRPG]Ben" data-source="post: 5959405" data-attributes="member: 6677983"><p>Yeah I pretty much agree with Umbran if you're trying to keep the power creep down to a minimum. Era plus the class books is probably fine, as typically I've allowed talents from almost every book as long as it made sense for the character to have.</p><p></p><p>Right, 35 not 30. But with force points, still not hard to do. I do the skill focus feat nerf to help minimize super force wizards as well as master slicers for use computer. </p><p></p><p>Characters can add their level to their RD if they are not wearing armor, OR they can add their armor bonus. This sucks if the character wants to wear a light armor flight suit for its sealed vacuum qualities but is level 4, as there is no mechanical benefit now. I just let them keep the extra benefits and use whichever is higher, their level or the armor bonus for their RD. </p><p></p><p>The natural wealth progression is pretty slow, but the character driven, creative wealth progression is generally exponential. One small example was a team of my players decided to start a smuggling business. Only one guy was force sensitive, and not a jedi, and he put some serious points into mind affecting force powers. </p><p></p><p>At the onset, they were able to "convince" customs agents and the like to allow them on to planets that otherwise would not, and made a quick fortune selling illegal items and weapons that they had taken from some other pirates and the like. </p><p></p><p>In a few short weeks in game time, they were managing a full-scale business with a dozen smuggling crews, five or six hacking crews, three crews of skilled mercenaries, and a coven of assassins. All in all, with good management and the party stepping in to help on really tough jobs, they were clearing a cool 2-5 million a week. </p><p></p><p>Once they hit about level 10 (probably about 3 months in game time) they were billionaires and incredibly powerful. This made things interesting, as the level of enemies they now faced were much more powerful than they, often many levels higher. For example, they earned the ire of the Black Sun by forcing them out of some of their more profitable regions, and one by one the party was eventually targeted by various highly skilled assassins to take them out. </p><p></p><p>After three of the six party members were killed, the other three burnt up all of their resources, bought a bunch of war ships and battle droids, and basically declared war on the Black Suns. It was not a pretty fight, and by the time the three original PCs and the newly rolled up additions (from the three earlier casualties) they all died around level 15, separated, broken, and broke. </p><p></p><p>Even though they definitely lost, it was a good lesson to be learned on all sides, that if you grow in money too quickly, you also grow in power, and therefore enemies, too quickly too. </p><p></p><p>As wingsandswords says, money in Star Wars can pretty much mean nothing for certain campaigns based upon the character's principles and your reaction as a GM. Buying a used freighter in the books is about 50-100k, with buying the necessary 2-10 piloting droids costs another 5-30k. So let's say 130k and they have a capable freighter ship, which, in and of itself, isn't that dangerous. It is just the exponential growth of turning a little bit of money and power into a lot of money and power that is dangerous. </p><p></p><p>I never had any issue with such a thing when my parties were "heroes," just when they decided to go the smugger/mercenary route. If you have a team of republic soldiers accompanied by Jedi, then they should have all of the resources they need simply given to them by the republic anyway (within reason/balance, of course).</p><p></p><p>As far as DCs, I think they are a little on the easy side. Especially for really key things, and the 5 + 1/2 Level Force Points every level, makes it possible for characters to do really large scale stuff, especially force users. </p><p></p><p>That being said, ultimately the GM has a lot of leeway with what effects happen with a success. I like large-scale, epic set piece battles and things for my SW games, and so I pretty much follow the DCs as written and elaborate quite largely on upper degrees of success. </p><p></p><p>For example in a particular space battle, the party's leader who was a Jedi Consular (very high UTF) was standing on the bridge of their warship, and using Move Object to shove objects at other nearby enemy ships, or to physically move his ship or the enemy ships away/into danger. It made him feel important and useful, but not overpowerful as the rest of the party manned weapons / systems vital to the ship combat.</p><p></p><p>As far as Umbran said with the ship combat, I would typically disagree but it is a matter of GMing style. I always find things for my PCs to do unless they are just being a poor sport and want to sit tight and hang on (their own choice.)</p><p></p><p>Some things I've had non-tech / non-starship combat oriented characters do:</p><p>- Roll perception to assist in incoming attacks/formations</p><p>- Roll perception to "insight" enemy intentions /future formations</p><p>- Knowledge tactics to assist with flanking maneuvers / positioning</p><p>- Various lore/knowledge skills to help with enemy tactics, weaknesses, combat types</p><p>- Use computer to help run systems and sensors to locate incoming attack types, jam communications, lower enemy shields, make cyber attacks on enemy command structure, or overall just hack the enemy ship to try to take it over/cause damage</p><p>- Force users can hurl objects (all they need is line of sight/effect but force powers can go through walls and long distances a la Vader force choking over a screen) or use other powers at distance to assist with the ship's maneuvers/combat</p><p>- Soldier types can use their own attack roll (this is a house-rule I've created) as opposed to the ship's when manning manual-fired guns</p><p>- Leader types can roll Persuasion and other checks to boost the overall speed and efficiency of the crew, the accuracy of its gunmen, and the capability of its defenders</p><p>- Try to do boarding operations so the melee/soldier types can actually get onto another ship and do some damage (or the reverse, have bad guys board their ship)</p><p></p><p>In all but a handful of ship battles (maybe hundreds) I've only had a few players not engaged in some way. I'm sure you can come up with lots of creative ways to keep everyone focused on the battle, even if nothing else, if the ship gets damaged and parts start decompressing or having power failure, simply just surviving is a skill challenge in and of itself. </p><p></p><p>Again, have fun and I'm sure you and your players will be doing lots of improvisation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="[OMENRPG]Ben, post: 5959405, member: 6677983"] Yeah I pretty much agree with Umbran if you're trying to keep the power creep down to a minimum. Era plus the class books is probably fine, as typically I've allowed talents from almost every book as long as it made sense for the character to have. Right, 35 not 30. But with force points, still not hard to do. I do the skill focus feat nerf to help minimize super force wizards as well as master slicers for use computer. Characters can add their level to their RD if they are not wearing armor, OR they can add their armor bonus. This sucks if the character wants to wear a light armor flight suit for its sealed vacuum qualities but is level 4, as there is no mechanical benefit now. I just let them keep the extra benefits and use whichever is higher, their level or the armor bonus for their RD. The natural wealth progression is pretty slow, but the character driven, creative wealth progression is generally exponential. One small example was a team of my players decided to start a smuggling business. Only one guy was force sensitive, and not a jedi, and he put some serious points into mind affecting force powers. At the onset, they were able to "convince" customs agents and the like to allow them on to planets that otherwise would not, and made a quick fortune selling illegal items and weapons that they had taken from some other pirates and the like. In a few short weeks in game time, they were managing a full-scale business with a dozen smuggling crews, five or six hacking crews, three crews of skilled mercenaries, and a coven of assassins. All in all, with good management and the party stepping in to help on really tough jobs, they were clearing a cool 2-5 million a week. Once they hit about level 10 (probably about 3 months in game time) they were billionaires and incredibly powerful. This made things interesting, as the level of enemies they now faced were much more powerful than they, often many levels higher. For example, they earned the ire of the Black Sun by forcing them out of some of their more profitable regions, and one by one the party was eventually targeted by various highly skilled assassins to take them out. After three of the six party members were killed, the other three burnt up all of their resources, bought a bunch of war ships and battle droids, and basically declared war on the Black Suns. It was not a pretty fight, and by the time the three original PCs and the newly rolled up additions (from the three earlier casualties) they all died around level 15, separated, broken, and broke. Even though they definitely lost, it was a good lesson to be learned on all sides, that if you grow in money too quickly, you also grow in power, and therefore enemies, too quickly too. As wingsandswords says, money in Star Wars can pretty much mean nothing for certain campaigns based upon the character's principles and your reaction as a GM. Buying a used freighter in the books is about 50-100k, with buying the necessary 2-10 piloting droids costs another 5-30k. So let's say 130k and they have a capable freighter ship, which, in and of itself, isn't that dangerous. It is just the exponential growth of turning a little bit of money and power into a lot of money and power that is dangerous. I never had any issue with such a thing when my parties were "heroes," just when they decided to go the smugger/mercenary route. If you have a team of republic soldiers accompanied by Jedi, then they should have all of the resources they need simply given to them by the republic anyway (within reason/balance, of course). As far as DCs, I think they are a little on the easy side. Especially for really key things, and the 5 + 1/2 Level Force Points every level, makes it possible for characters to do really large scale stuff, especially force users. That being said, ultimately the GM has a lot of leeway with what effects happen with a success. I like large-scale, epic set piece battles and things for my SW games, and so I pretty much follow the DCs as written and elaborate quite largely on upper degrees of success. For example in a particular space battle, the party's leader who was a Jedi Consular (very high UTF) was standing on the bridge of their warship, and using Move Object to shove objects at other nearby enemy ships, or to physically move his ship or the enemy ships away/into danger. It made him feel important and useful, but not overpowerful as the rest of the party manned weapons / systems vital to the ship combat. As far as Umbran said with the ship combat, I would typically disagree but it is a matter of GMing style. I always find things for my PCs to do unless they are just being a poor sport and want to sit tight and hang on (their own choice.) Some things I've had non-tech / non-starship combat oriented characters do: - Roll perception to assist in incoming attacks/formations - Roll perception to "insight" enemy intentions /future formations - Knowledge tactics to assist with flanking maneuvers / positioning - Various lore/knowledge skills to help with enemy tactics, weaknesses, combat types - Use computer to help run systems and sensors to locate incoming attack types, jam communications, lower enemy shields, make cyber attacks on enemy command structure, or overall just hack the enemy ship to try to take it over/cause damage - Force users can hurl objects (all they need is line of sight/effect but force powers can go through walls and long distances a la Vader force choking over a screen) or use other powers at distance to assist with the ship's maneuvers/combat - Soldier types can use their own attack roll (this is a house-rule I've created) as opposed to the ship's when manning manual-fired guns - Leader types can roll Persuasion and other checks to boost the overall speed and efficiency of the crew, the accuracy of its gunmen, and the capability of its defenders - Try to do boarding operations so the melee/soldier types can actually get onto another ship and do some damage (or the reverse, have bad guys board their ship) In all but a handful of ship battles (maybe hundreds) I've only had a few players not engaged in some way. I'm sure you can come up with lots of creative ways to keep everyone focused on the battle, even if nothing else, if the ship gets damaged and parts start decompressing or having power failure, simply just surviving is a skill challenge in and of itself. Again, have fun and I'm sure you and your players will be doing lots of improvisation. [/QUOTE]
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