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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 2182728" data-attributes="member: 9002">here is a scimitar user bardbarianWho doesn't use a shield, but uses alter self as a shield.This build requires mucho casting of alter self, like, all the time.&nbsp; It does last 40 min. per casting, however, so pre-casting is a real option I hope some of the time.I don't know how the 'to hits' work with the trog form and multiattack precisely -- somebody else needs to advise on that one!Level 5 Melee Bard-o-DoomHuman, 30 point buy.&nbsp; Barbarian1/Bard4Str:18 (13 points) + inherent bonusCon: 14 (6 points)Dex: 14 (6 points)Wis:8 (0 points)Ch: 13 (5 points)Int: 8 (0 points)Feats: Improved toughness, Power attack, Dodge, Multiattack* (from trog in trog form)Hit Points:&nbsp; 12 + 16 + 10 + 5 = 43Magic:&nbsp; +2 armor, +1 scimitar.&nbsp; 5 x-tra scrolls of alter self.Tactics:&nbsp; Always cast alter self on first round of battle. Or buff it up well in advance when you suspect something.&nbsp; It lasts a LONG time so don’t be shy.&nbsp; If you can, inspire courage and get into position for a full attack the following round.After &quot;Altering Self&quot; into Troglodyte form, this Bard can have a typical AC of:&nbsp; +7 (+2 mithral breastplate) +2 (dex) + 6 (Troglodyte natural armor) + 1 (dodge) = 24.&nbsp; OK for level 5.&nbsp; Any other additional AC boosts will pay off big time.After &quot;inspiring&quot; the party, the Bard can hit and hurt in melee:&nbsp; [bard uses scimitar in 2 hands for primary attack, then drops a hand for the claw and bites.&nbsp; I assume this is legal. ]+4 (BAB) +1 (song) + 4 (strength) +1 (+1 scimitar) = +9 to hit with a scimitar as a primary attack, for 1d6 + 10 damage.&nbsp; (does this have a penalty when using it with the Trog multi attack?)&nbsp; like –2 to hit?Then the claw-bite followup, at +7/+7 (-2 penalty only due to multi-attack) for 1d4+3 each.Total:&nbsp; +9 (* maybe +7)/+6/+6 at level 5, for 1d6+ 10/1d4 + 3/1d4 +3.Hit points are OK but not great thanks to constitution and Improved Toughness.&nbsp; AC is OK, overall attack sequence at level 5 excellent.&nbsp; Nobody else gets 3 attacks, after all.Tactics:&nbsp; Use tumble skill to flank whenever possible (tumble skill is only +8, so watch out), converting the +2 flanking bonus into +2 damage via power attack.GRANTED:&nbsp; It's not overwhelming.&nbsp; But it compares favorably with ye olde boring raging barbarian w/a greatsword.&nbsp; Plus is lots more fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 2182728, member: 9002"] [b]here is a scimitar user bardbarian[/b] Who doesn't use a shield, but uses alter self as a shield. This build requires mucho casting of alter self, like, all the time. It does last 40 min. per casting, however, so pre-casting is a real option I hope some of the time. I don't know how the 'to hits' work with the trog form and multiattack precisely -- somebody else needs to advise on that one! Level 5 Melee Bard-o-Doom Human, 30 point buy. Barbarian1/Bard4 Str:18 (13 points) + inherent bonus Con: 14 (6 points) Dex: 14 (6 points) Wis:8 (0 points) Ch: 13 (5 points) Int: 8 (0 points) Feats: Improved toughness, Power attack, Dodge, Multiattack* (from trog in trog form) Hit Points: 12 + 16 + 10 + 5 = 43 Magic: +2 armor, +1 scimitar. 5 x-tra scrolls of alter self. Tactics: Always cast alter self on first round of battle. Or buff it up well in advance when you suspect something. It lasts a LONG time so don’t be shy. If you can, inspire courage and get into position for a full attack the following round. After "Altering Self" into Troglodyte form, this Bard can have a typical AC of: +7 (+2 mithral breastplate) +2 (dex) + 6 (Troglodyte natural armor) + 1 (dodge) = 24. OK for level 5. Any other additional AC boosts will pay off big time. After "inspiring" the party, the Bard can hit and hurt in melee: [bard uses scimitar in 2 hands for primary attack, then drops a hand for the claw and bites. I assume this is legal. ] +4 (BAB) +1 (song) + 4 (strength) +1 (+1 scimitar) = +9 to hit with a scimitar as a primary attack, for 1d6 + 10 damage. (does this have a penalty when using it with the Trog multi attack?) like –2 to hit? Then the claw-bite followup, at +7/+7 (-2 penalty only due to multi-attack) for 1d4+3 each. Total: +9 (* maybe +7)/+6/+6 at level 5, for 1d6+ 10/1d4 + 3/1d4 +3. Hit points are OK but not great thanks to constitution and Improved Toughness. AC is OK, overall attack sequence at level 5 excellent. Nobody else gets 3 attacks, after all. Tactics: Use tumble skill to flank whenever possible (tumble skill is only +8, so watch out), converting the +2 flanking bonus into +2 damage via power attack. GRANTED: It's not overwhelming. But it compares favorably with ye olde boring raging barbarian w/a greatsword. Plus is lots more fun. [/QUOTE]

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