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Inquiry: How do 4E fans feel about 4E Essentials?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8439088" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Oh, there were a lot that could be cut. But as you say there were already 20 classes in the game. Also in the Essentials era classes I've either played or run for in Heroic tier and that were fun and couldn't be replaced with pre-4e classes without serious reworks for the player:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thief</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Slayer</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Knight</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hexblade (currently one in the campaign I'm dropping in to)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scout</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bladesinger (yes, really)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vampire</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Executioner (needed polish but there's a decent class there)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Berserker (currently playing one)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elementalist</li> </ul><p>Not included includes the Witch, the Sha'ir, the Binder, the Blackguard (there could have been something there), the Skald, the Hunter (again an execution miss). The Crusader's very borderline. And I'm not sure whether there's anything to the Skald. Also the mage and the warpriest were pretty redundant and the Sentinel I've only ever seen once, and that for a dog-obsessed drop-in.</p><p></p><p>As I mentioned in my current campaign group there's an active hexblade and I've a berserker. The thing is that once you've filled out the basic classes then you have to experiment. Some of the best 3.5 stuff came from the experimenting.</p><p></p><p>Your experience is very different from mine <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> (The Esassin is a HoS class - but that book was the biggest mess in 4e)</p><p></p><p>Blackguard was a good concept but HoS was a Mike Mearls project.</p><p></p><p>The Necromancer and the Nethermancer were both HoS subclasses and nicely fluffy. I've said before and I'll say again that one of the things where Essentials improved on base 4e is that evokers and necromancers are more inspiring than orb wizards and staff wizards.</p><p></p><p>Point. I really don't like the Artificer as it doesn't feel like it builds stuff - indeed I'd go so far as to say that it's the only time I actively prefer the 5e version of a class.</p><p></p><p>Yup. 5e's taken 4e's subclasses and run with the way it opens up design space right to the point of making the Psion a subclass of Sorcerer ("Abyssal Mind sorcerer"). It's made the decision for both good and ill to keep down the number of classes and instead do as much as possible with subclasses (putting a lot of what was done in 4e by both feats and powers there), and it's a choice I can respect.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8439088, member: 87792"] Oh, there were a lot that could be cut. But as you say there were already 20 classes in the game. Also in the Essentials era classes I've either played or run for in Heroic tier and that were fun and couldn't be replaced with pre-4e classes without serious reworks for the player: [LIST] [*]Thief [*]Slayer [*]Knight [*]Hexblade (currently one in the campaign I'm dropping in to) [*]Scout [*]Bladesinger (yes, really) [*]Vampire [*]Executioner (needed polish but there's a decent class there) [*]Berserker (currently playing one) [*]Elementalist [/LIST] Not included includes the Witch, the Sha'ir, the Binder, the Blackguard (there could have been something there), the Skald, the Hunter (again an execution miss). The Crusader's very borderline. And I'm not sure whether there's anything to the Skald. Also the mage and the warpriest were pretty redundant and the Sentinel I've only ever seen once, and that for a dog-obsessed drop-in. As I mentioned in my current campaign group there's an active hexblade and I've a berserker. The thing is that once you've filled out the basic classes then you have to experiment. Some of the best 3.5 stuff came from the experimenting. Your experience is very different from mine :) (The Esassin is a HoS class - but that book was the biggest mess in 4e) Blackguard was a good concept but HoS was a Mike Mearls project. The Necromancer and the Nethermancer were both HoS subclasses and nicely fluffy. I've said before and I'll say again that one of the things where Essentials improved on base 4e is that evokers and necromancers are more inspiring than orb wizards and staff wizards. Point. I really don't like the Artificer as it doesn't feel like it builds stuff - indeed I'd go so far as to say that it's the only time I actively prefer the 5e version of a class. Yup. 5e's taken 4e's subclasses and run with the way it opens up design space right to the point of making the Psion a subclass of Sorcerer ("Abyssal Mind sorcerer"). It's made the decision for both good and ill to keep down the number of classes and instead do as much as possible with subclasses (putting a lot of what was done in 4e by both feats and powers there), and it's a choice I can respect. [/QUOTE]
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