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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6833213" data-attributes="member: 996">Well, almost.  Therefore you can take it as 'background fantasy physics magic' if you feel the need.  Does it take 'background magic' to explain someone being inspired enough to get a bonus to a roll down the line?  That would make the character-trait Inspiration mechanic 'background magic,' too.  The same reasoning, actually, would make everything that isn't overt dispellable magic, background magic.  Sun rises in the morning?  Magic.    That's not actually faulty reasoning, either, a fantasy world could have 'magic' completely supplant the laws of physics.  Whether the DM decides his setting is such a world or not, the idea gives anyone who wants it plausible deniability about something being magic or not.  If you need it to be, you can believe it is.  Not even close.  The BM gets 3 maneuvers at third level, all of which are used with/as an attack (so are, perforce, used as part of the Fighter's signature high-DPR attack action).  Eventually he gets 3 more, still 3rd-level-appropriate maneuvers, from a list of around 18, perhaps 3 or 4 of those are arguably analogous to those the Warlord had.  The Warlord had over 300, and leveling opened access to more powerful ones over 30 levels.  It's easy to draw an analogy between the BM & EK on one side, and the Warlord and Wizard on the other, and fair to say that the Warlord is no more represented by the BM than the Wizard is by the EK.  It's actually overselling the BM substantially:   for the EK to have as little wizard going for it as the BM has Warlord, it would have to have a spell list with only 17 spells, of which he could learn 6 over his career, and only 3-4 of which were even arguably similar to wizard spells.The Cleric has 7 sub-classes (Domains) in the PH, and more have been published and are likely to be published, the Warlord had 6 official builds, so that'd be a step up.  The Cleric has about 100 spells in the PH, about as many as the Warlord had martial powers in the PH1, and more spells have already been published and it's reasonable to expect more on the way over the years.  That level of support sounds just fine.There's nothing the Warlord class has ever done that required spellcasting or 'actual' (dispellable) magic (Dispel Magic was in 4e, and didn't work on any Warlord powers), so there's no call for it.  It's hard to imagine a hypothetical Warlord maneuver that might pass the test for magic given in that recent Sage Advice.  OTOH, it's not hard to imagine a Warlord sub-class like the EK ('Mage-Commander' perhaps) that actually did cast spells.  Or an Ardent sub-class with Psionics, if the Mystic doesn't come through with one, for that matter.   Not necessarily pleasant to imagine, but not difficult.  ;P</blockquote>

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