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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreenTengu" data-source="post: 6833771" data-attributes="member: 6777454">You  know, it is interesting how people have a general aversion to this being done via a social stat, but have 0 problem with this being done via a physical stat.A: "My character is an unstoppable juggernaut!!"B: "I make a grapple check" <A fails save>DM: You can't move and must make a check to escapeA: "My character will never give up or surrender!!"DM: *rolls damage and reduces A to 0 HPs* You are unconscious.I would really like to know where this disconnect comes from. Why is it your characters views and motivations and leanings and ambitions and desires are all 100% mutable in your mind regardless of what they could possibly come up against, but you haven't the least bit problem with all of those things being shaped and forces through in-game physical needs.Why can you totally 100% without any reservation accept an undesirable outcome that utterly ruins your character's core principals if it is explained through overwhelming them via a physical stat, but the moment it comes to overwhelming them through a mental stat it becomes "controversial"?If the game is going to treat physical and mental/social traits EQUALLY when a character chooses to invest in them, why should they not have equal game effect?Because frankly, it seems to me like it is cheating to ignore the results of a bluff roll because of some piece of OOC knowledge when you would never ignore an attack roll because it is equally undesirable to you OOC.</blockquote>

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