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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 4177990" data-attributes="member: 2525">That was a formula.  It says to make two lists of numbers, it details how to calculate each number, what to SUBTRACT from one list before you SUBTRACT from the other list, and what happens to one set of numbers when the other set of numbers go away.  I don't know how complicated a formula you were looking for, but that is a formula.  If you think it is not a formula, tell me why.That part was below.First, the issue at hand: they are temporary increased hit dice, correct?  We both agree the hit dice are not permanent, but are temporary? And the hit dice come with commensurate hit points, adjusted by your Con as normal for increased hit dice, correct? And we both agree that clause I just quoted demonstrates that temporary increases in things which have an influence on hit points (like Con score) are not themselves "temporary hit points" as you are using that phrase, correct?So when you say you cannot see where I am going with this, can you see it now? You might not agree with it, but you're claiming you don't even get the argument I am making, so I want to make sure it's at least understood first. As for your response, you can overuse the word "clearly" til your blue in the face, but it doesn't sound more persuasive.  There are two rationale interpretations here, and one is not "clearly" superior to the other on it's face or else we wouldn't be debating this.You don't need that Barbarian-type language for that formula to be used.  WOTC uses increased hit dice in other books, like the Races Of books, and they do not use the Barbarian language to explain it but simply use increased hit dice like humanoid hit dice.  I can name dozens of times when WOTC is not consistent in repeating some explanatory language, but that doesn't mean the lack of that repeated explanatory language negates the use of the ability as normal.I didn't mis-speak, but perhaps I was not as clear as I should have been.  There is a system that designates what is done concerning healing temporary hit points, and the rule is "you cannot".  All I said was that the system speaks to the issue, not what it does with the issue.Indeed, and hit points granted by temporary hit dice are also not "temporary hit points" in the manner you are using them.  Because you CAN heal them, which is something you cannot do with "temporary hit points". We agree you can heal hit points that are related to  temporarily increased hit dice, right?  And we agree that you cannot heal "temporary hit points", right? So we agree these two things (temporary increased Con, and temporary increased Hit Dice) are similar things in the rules, right?Because that isn't what the ability says.  It's not temporary hit points based on your Con, it's temporary hit dice, which comes with commensurate hit points as adjusted as usual by Con.  That's the distinction.  I can think of no way to get "temporary hit points" that are adjusted by your Con score without having them linked to Hit Dice.  Can you?Your theoretical spell notwithstanding, we have plenty of actual rules to work with right now to be requiring hypotheticals.I don't recall mentioning a contradiction.  Indeed, I think the reverse is going on: you are trying to lump Temporary Hit Dice (and the commensurate number of hit points as normally adjusted by Con, which would by their nature be described as temporary), with Temporary Hit Points, the thing which is never related to your Con score, and which is never related to your hit dice, and which follows different rules than Temporary Hit Dice increases to hit points such as the ability heal the later.</blockquote>

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