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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 4178169" data-attributes="member: 111">No it's not - you are misrepresenting or misunderstanding my position.PCs/NPCs from the PHB (NOT including monsters as PCs/NPCs) do not use racial hit die (not counting some expansion book that might change the rules to add something in).I have completely limited my arguments to normal, average, everyday PCs/NPCs who would be listed in the MM as humanoids having 1 Hit Die.No character who fits that defintion may use the "Creature Improvement by Type" table.They are specifically excluded from doing so by quite a few rules.1.  The table itself has this note, "Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type. "  (Of course, this applies to ALL creatures, not just PCs, and would apply to monsters as PCs, too.)2.  The "Creature Improvement by Type" table is presented in the context of improving monsters.3.  The humanoid type says: "Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class."4.  Even the "Monsters as Races" section states, "Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class. "  5.  More from "Monsters as Races:"  Creatures with Hit Dice of 1 or less have normal, class-based Hit Dice and features. They get skills and feats appropriate to a 1st-level character (even if they have a level adjustment). (4) and (5) are not terribly strong statements, granted, but I fail to see how anyone can read (1) and think that the Creature Improvement by Type table applies to the "improvement" of ANY creature with a character class.Now, if someone wants to argue that Bonus HD are not an "improvement," well, okay, but then the table does not apply in any case as it applies only for "improvements."</blockquote>

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