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<blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5336674" data-attributes="member: 83768">I find that Instant Friends falls right alongside those powers I mentioned above. If you can disguise all of your allies as the enemies with a spell, then why not be able to turn an enemy (that you've somehow gotten to engage with outside of combat) into a trusted ally? There's already precedent for powers like this, and considering people wanted more &quot;utility&quot; spells that were useful outside of combat, I don't see the problem here. I don't understand why for you it's ok for a DM to &quot;balance&quot; a ritual but not a power... As much contention as using Bluff or Diplomacy or Intimidate? Clearly, the power spells out the situation you describe. The enemy won't risk life or property for you. Or, let me put it this way. If you had a friend, a trusted friend. That friend, had other friends that you didn't like. You show up to &quot;beat up&quot; your trusted friends friends. Is that guy going to be your friend anymore? I think common sense here dictates the result, depending on the fiction, the same way a Diplomacy check to befriend someone would. No, not in theory. In practice. I've DM'd &quot;forever&quot; too and this is the most refined version of &quot;Charm&quot; spell I've seen. It gives the DM a clear guideline for not allowing it to be a &quot;win button&quot; and also empowers the player to use magic to befriend an NPC where the DM might not allow it with a Diplomacy check. Seems like an excellent power to me. Might it derail your plot? Sure. The solution is simple: don't make a plot on rails with predetermined solutions. This is exactly the kind of power I want my players to have. That's coming from an &quot;experienced&quot; DM. If they can resurrect them as elegantly as they've resurrected Charm Person (Instant Friends), then I hope so!Abdul, I don't wanna turn this into a big thing. I just think you're having a bit of &quot;knee-jerk&quot; here instead of objectively looking at the power for what it is. Does it break the mold of most 4E powers? Sure. Are there precedents for powers like this? Absolutely. I'd love to hear some feedback of actual play using this power.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="P1NBACK, post: 5336674, member: 83768"] I find that Instant Friends falls right alongside those powers I mentioned above. If you can disguise all of your allies as the enemies with a spell, then why not be able to turn an enemy (that you've somehow gotten to engage with [I]outside of combat[/I]) into a trusted ally? There's already precedent for powers like this, and considering people wanted more "utility" spells that were useful outside of combat, I don't see the problem here. I don't understand why for you it's ok for a DM to "balance" a ritual but not a power... As much contention as using Bluff or Diplomacy or Intimidate? Clearly, the power spells out the situation you describe. The enemy won't risk life or property for you. Or, let me put it this way. If you had a friend, a trusted friend. That friend, had other friends that you didn't like. You show up to "beat up" your trusted friends friends. Is that guy going to be your friend anymore? I think common sense here dictates the result, depending on the fiction, the same way a Diplomacy check to befriend someone would. No, not in theory. In practice. I've DM'd "forever" too and this is the most refined version of "Charm" spell I've seen. It gives the DM a clear guideline for not allowing it to be a "win button" and also empowers the player to use magic to befriend an NPC where the DM might not allow it with a Diplomacy check. Seems like an excellent power to me. Might it derail your plot? Sure. The solution is simple: don't make a plot on rails with predetermined solutions. This is [I]exactly [/I]the kind of power I want my players to have. That's coming from an "experienced" DM. If they can resurrect them as elegantly as they've resurrected Charm Person (Instant Friends), then I hope so! Abdul, I don't wanna turn this into a big thing. I just think you're having a bit of "knee-jerk" here instead of objectively looking at the power for what it is. Does it break the mold of most 4E powers? Sure. Are there precedents for powers like this? Absolutely. I'd love to hear some feedback of [I]actual play[/I] using this power. [/QUOTE]

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