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Message: <blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5337451" data-attributes="member: 83768">Except... In the case I present above where the ruler of a region has a trusted adviser that sits in with him during audiences and can detect the use of such spells. Using this logic, there's no risk in disguising your entire party as orcs with Phantom Mask and marching past the planned orc encounter the DM had... So much for that "negating" theory you have. It's totally flavorful and fits in with established sword & sorcery fiction. Yeah. Actually someone did. They said it was a "win button". I don't remember who said that. Go back to page 2 I think. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I think you're a bit confused here. I don't see the difference in nerfing a ritual and nerfing a power. The player expects rituals to work the same as they expect powers to work. By minimizing the ritual, like you're doing, you're saying that one part of the system is fine for DMs to muck with, but one part isn't. I don't get that. I don't think anyone is biased against ritual magic. Seems more like people are biased against utility magic that's not a ritual. "I like to be lazy and just use feather fall when I climb really high instead of using my climb skill..." "I like to be lazy about it and just whip out my Disguise Self spell instead of taking the time to use Bluff and come up with fake elf ears..." ...Really? Lazy? It's just a resource for players. lol... It's low level because it's not that powerful. Seriously. It's not. A) You can't use it in combat. So, getting to a position to actually engage with the creature in a non-hostile manner is a challenge in and of itself. Meaning, you can't really use this on creatures who don't like you that well in the first place. Not unless you capture them and restrain them. Hmmm. Sounds like an interesting challenge! B) It's not automatic. It's not very effective against creatures of higher level. As a DM, you control what level creatures are... Hmmm... C) It's not a "win button" - so let's assume you capture them, they're not higher level than you, and you FINALLY get to use Instant Friends. So what? They'll give you all the good information that as a DM you should WANT your players to have. They don't do much for you, they won't risk property (like give you anything) and they won't risk their life (like fight for you or do anything that endangers them, like give out something that'll get them killed...). So, really... This is totally blown out of proportion in my humble opinion. It's not that great of a power. It's just flavorful, interesting, and fun. It gives a little power to players who have that douchebag DM that gives auto-failures on Diplomacy checks. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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