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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5337453" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>There is some truth to this - but I'm not entirely sure. For one thing, as mentioned, some rituals can already do stuff like this - even if it is more difficult to set up, the outcome would still be the same. More than that, however... any skill challenge this truly would instantly overcome was probably not ideal as a skill challenge in the first place. </p><p> </p><p>It's the same as the one check rule - if one good Diplomacy check to befriend the leader would get the job done, that's not a good encounter to expand into a full skill challenge. </p><p> </p><p>So, presumably, if you are in a skill challenge that involves trying to persuade a leader to aid you, there is likely a reason why it isn't a one check challenge. Say, doing so might involve risk to his authority, or might involve risking his own people - or some other reason why he is hesitant to do it in the first place. </p><p> </p><p>Which means this spell won't win the challenge for you. Sure, you can count it as an automatic success or two, essentially replacing several Diplomacy checks the party would have needed to make - but now you still need to convince him that helping is in the best interests of his people. Which is where the other relevant skill checks would come back into the picture. </p><p> </p><p>That's my real advice for anyone who thinks this power will 'break' some plot element. Just treat it, in those cases, like someone who made an excellent Diplomacy check. The target now likes the person, would love to help them, but that only goes so far. </p><p> </p><p>Or, as mentioned... just make sure PCs keep the consequences in mind. Casting the spell could be a big boost to the success of a challenge... or he could make his save and get upset at them trying to magically manipulate him. Or, if their goal <em>is </em>something the spell will let happen... then it happens, but you'll need to deal with a seperate, new skill challenge 1d4 hours later when it wears off and the angry leader comes after you - or, if he doesn't remember the spell, instead loses his position because of his foolish behavior while under your influence. </p><p> </p><p>I understand people's concerns about this, but like others have said - it seems the most smoothly balanced version of a charm spell out there. The restrictions on it seem to address pretty much every possible 'abuse' that has been suggested. I'm not seeing the problem, myself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5337453, member: 61155"] There is some truth to this - but I'm not entirely sure. For one thing, as mentioned, some rituals can already do stuff like this - even if it is more difficult to set up, the outcome would still be the same. More than that, however... any skill challenge this truly would instantly overcome was probably not ideal as a skill challenge in the first place. It's the same as the one check rule - if one good Diplomacy check to befriend the leader would get the job done, that's not a good encounter to expand into a full skill challenge. So, presumably, if you are in a skill challenge that involves trying to persuade a leader to aid you, there is likely a reason why it isn't a one check challenge. Say, doing so might involve risk to his authority, or might involve risking his own people - or some other reason why he is hesitant to do it in the first place. Which means this spell won't win the challenge for you. Sure, you can count it as an automatic success or two, essentially replacing several Diplomacy checks the party would have needed to make - but now you still need to convince him that helping is in the best interests of his people. Which is where the other relevant skill checks would come back into the picture. That's my real advice for anyone who thinks this power will 'break' some plot element. Just treat it, in those cases, like someone who made an excellent Diplomacy check. The target now likes the person, would love to help them, but that only goes so far. Or, as mentioned... just make sure PCs keep the consequences in mind. Casting the spell could be a big boost to the success of a challenge... or he could make his save and get upset at them trying to magically manipulate him. Or, if their goal [I]is [/I]something the spell will let happen... then it happens, but you'll need to deal with a seperate, new skill challenge 1d4 hours later when it wears off and the angry leader comes after you - or, if he doesn't remember the spell, instead loses his position because of his foolish behavior while under your influence. I understand people's concerns about this, but like others have said - it seems the most smoothly balanced version of a charm spell out there. The restrictions on it seem to address pretty much every possible 'abuse' that has been suggested. I'm not seeing the problem, myself. [/QUOTE]
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