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Message: <blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5338381" data-attributes="member: 83768">Oh, how'd I miss this. Thanks for quoting it dude. How does it let you win an encounter? As stated many, many times, at best you have overcome one obstacle. As stated many, many times, Instant Friends does not force someone to "keel over dead". They're still their own person. They're not dominated. They're still free-thinking creatures. The only difference is now their disposition toward you has changed (and not even toward your allies). Not at all. You're using an extreme example of talking with a ruler of a region or someone very powerful. I'm saying, most of those people in a fantasy world would likely be wary of magic during audiences... So, it would make sense for them to have something like this in place. The same would be true of any of the spells that let you "reroll a diplomacy check" or whatever. It's not a "counter" any more than giving monsters a fortified location is a "counter" to them attacking... It's just part of the story. I used Phantom Mask as an example of a "ritual-like" spell. That said, it is a higher level version of Disguise Self. Diguise Self is low level (6th), lasts for hours, works on you alone, and can allow you to overcome a skill challenge entirely (or not) depending on the circumstances. Sounds very much like Instant Friends. Skill Challenge: Sneak in to the castle. Player: I use Disguise Self and waltz right in. DM: Oh... Ok. You're in. I'm not giving up anything to get a Utility power. It's a bonus I get at 2nd level. And, if you nerf one of those, I still get to pick others. Again, rituals are the same. At certain levels, I can buy rituals and if you nerf one there are others I can spend my gold on instead. Trying to justify nerfing one aspect of the game and not the other is kind of whack in my opinion.Who said "rituals suck" in this thread? I don't see it. Exactly. And, you can use this ONCE PER DAY. So, meeting people constantly means you aren't going to be able to use this spell to overcome many obstacles at all. I might have to use it to get the audience with the ruler in the first place, then all of a sudden I can't use it on the ruler! Oh no! Lol. I think you're the one suffering from delusions man. Getting someone to change their disposition toward you is the same as lopping someone's head off? ... Ha. Nice. Talk about hyperbole. Nah. Not really at all. Again, you're going into "win button" mode here and you said earlier you weren't saying it was a win button. So... which is it? Is it a win button or not? Yeah, if it's a situation where one group might talk, then it's obvious this power should be used. That doesn't mean the party "wins" automatically. Let's take an example: Group of bad guys go up to the party. They start to talk. Wizard uses Instant Friends on one of them. "Wtf? Why is Bob acting like that? They must have used magic! Attack!" Lol... So, you're fine with the Phantom Mask because it's high level. But, a 13th level magic item (only 3 levels below) isn't high enough level - even when it requires TWO daily powers to be spent? Your logic is totally inconsistent. So... it IS a win button now? To expand on your exercise: Go to a trusted friend. Ask them to hurt themselves or someone for you. Ask them to rip off their work for you. Ask them to betray another friend for you. Ask them to give you your car. Ask them to fight someone with you. Ask them to give you money without having to pay it back. Nearly every example of an amoral adventurer involves property and risking life. This power is just an info dump power. It doesn't mean you "dominate" the individual. That's just laughable. This power isn't even that great. It'd be much better if it said, "The creature is totally in love with you and does anything you ask of it." It doesn't. It just simply doesn't. It's a good way to get the truthful information out of a turtle'd up NPC. Making it more than that is just plain unreasonable.</blockquote>

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