Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5338670" data-attributes="member: 5143">I really don't like this power.  Charm Person and similar spells caused the most arguments hands down in previous editions.  There is no way to balance them effectively.I already know at least one DM who will consider this power to mean "You succeed at all Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Intimidate, and Streetwise checks against one NPC for 4 hours."  This means that if we ever get into a Skill Challenge that involves using any combination of those skills and requires 8 or 10 successes, then we just get the XP for free.I mean, imagine a skill challenge that involves slowly convincing a King to help you, and you need to bring up good points, each point you bring up allows you a Diplomacy check and eventually he is convinced.  The rationale behind this being that the King considers adventurers untrustworthy and needs to be convinced of their intentions and the worthiness of their cause.Of course, is the King really going to turn down his best friend when he asks for some help?  Is he really going to tell his best friend that his cause isn't worth the effort?  Using this power wins the entire Skill Challenge.Also, it'll let you use an NPC to do all your dirty work.  I've seen Charm Person used in this way before.  You simply use it on a random passerby in the middle of the street then you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourselves.  The enemy might be watching out for anyone asking about something, so they'll never know it was you...you have Random Charmed Guy ask about it for you.  Enemy know who you are and you need to go get something without being seen?  No problem, RCG can do that for you.In fact, if you think hard enough, you can use it to replace almost every skill in the game.  No one able to disarm traps?  RCG trusts you like a best friend, simply lie to him about whether there are traps and he'll walk right into them.  Or charm a locksmith to open your chests for free.  Or charm a sage to do hours of research for you.  Or charm the leader of a group of thugs into intimidating someone for you.It's just way more powerful than every other utility power at that level.The other problem might be the reverse.  The other argument we always used to have is when DMs didn't allow you to get any information at ALL from someone when you used the power.  I know at least one DM who believes that people don't tell their best friends anything even slightly secret and refuse to do anything for their best friends that even takes the slightest bit of effort.  We'd cast Charm Person on a guard and they'd refuse to let us past because they were afraid they'd lose their job, they wouldn't tell us what they'd seen inside the castle because they were afraid they'd lose their job, they wouldn't leave their post, they wouldn't tell us if there were any other entrances.  The spell might have been completely useless.So, the problem is, the power is one of the most powerful spells in the game at one table, and the worst power in the game at another.  I was glad 4e had gotten rid of all the powers that required so much DM intervention.  I'm sorry to see them come back.</blockquote>

Verification