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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5339129" data-attributes="member: 61155">Ok, let's rephrase that a bit for what I'm actually saying: -A Skill Challenge shouldn't be something that can be resolved in a single check.-Any challenge that Instant Friends can actually solve on its own is a situation that already is simple enough it would have been more appropriate as a single Diplomacy check than a Skill Challenge.   No problem... bringing along that trusted friend. In a normal skill challenge, would each PC have to convince the merchant of their worth? Why wouldn't that be the same case here - a free success or two as the Wizard becomes his friend, but the rest of the challenge remains for the rest of the party. After all, a trusted friend simply vouching for the rest would be asking the merchant to bring along 4-5 possible saboteurs on a valuable caravan trip... and thus, asking him to 'risk his property', which Instant Friends doesn't do. Also, 1d4 hours later, he kicks them all out of the Caravan.   Information gathering does seem to be the strong part of the power. I'd imagine the challenge would become convincing the fey to let the wizard leave - a sadistic, powerful and capricious fey might want to hold on to his newfound friend, rather than let it go off into danger. So now they have to entertain him just to get him to let their friend go.  Also, this seems like the sort of place where Instant Friends could be really dangerous to use. The risk of the fey saving against it, recognizing what you've done, and being upset would seem pretty significant.   ...they wouldn't have any benefit at all. You've already said the core of the challenge is that he fears telling them anything could get him killed. Instant Friends specifically says you can't ask your friend to risk his life. The challenge remains the same - convince him that helping you isn't a risk. Maybe the power gets you a success or some bonuses, but letting it win the challenge is outright ignoring how it works.   If the Avenger guards are around, I imagine they'll get upset when they see the party enchant their boss.  But, actually, this feels like one of those flawed skill challenges I talked about earlier. The goal is too simple. What happens if they simply present him with a forged note from his superiors to let them pass? What happens if they disguise themselves as people with access, and just walk in? Use a ritual or power to find an unwatched way in?  The fact the DM is already ok with the PCs bypassing the challenge by turning over some money is - at least to me - a sign this doesn't need to be a full skill challenge in the first place. Make a Hard diplomacy check, or an Average bluff check, or give him some cash, or go on a minor quest for a book. This just doesn't seem robust enough as it is to need the full framework of a challenge.  We again run into the risk of trying and failing to enchant a powerful creature that has your life in its hands. But beyond that - again, the dragon will probably gladly release its friend the Wizard. But it certainly won't freely turn over its property (the other PCs) to him! It might lower the asking price for them, but they'll still need to convince it to let everyone else go, and that the rest of the group can be trusted.   And so Instant Friends will bypass the social checks needed. There is no reason why you wouldn't still need the Heal checks, along with knowledge checks to direct the questions where you want them to go.    And, in general, I think they show why you are overestimating the danger of this power. The big things to keep in mind:-Only lasts 1d4 hours.-Subject won't risk life or property.-Only makes the caster the friend, not the rest of the party. Most challenges involve something that goes beyond those requirements.  From the above examples, only two seem like Instant Friends could actually solve them. One of them, the archivist, seems readily bypassable in plenty of other ways. So that just leaves the fey - a situation where using Instant Friends is risky, and the DM has options to alter the skill challenge is they really want it to happen.  In the end, I do still think there are challenges it can help with, mainly information gathering ones. But in most cases, I think 'help' is the operative word - I see few where it will resolve everything the challenge needs, rather than simply help with some portion of it.   I don't know. Is the difference between 2nd and 10th level that extreme? Should many movement based challenged be made obsolete by the wizard? Note that in this scenarios, Arcane Gate is typically automatic and much more universal at helping the party. That almost seems worse, to me, than Instant Friends, which is a chance at suceeding, and is closely enough tied to the Wizard that it won't always help the rest of the party.   Instead, they should be obviated by a Bard with an absurdly high Diplomacy score and Words of Friendship. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Seriously, though. Any challenge that is just about talking nicely to someone is too simple in the first place. There has to be some reason the challenge doesn't just end after a few Diplomacy checks. And all those non-Diplomacy relevant skills should usually still be relevant even with Instant Friends in play.  Also, good luck enchanting a god and not having that backfire in your face.   -Only lasts 1d4 hours.-Subject won't risk life or property.-Only makes the caster the friend, not the rest of the party. Clearly written restrictions within the power itself. If a DM ignores them or rules inconsistenly on them, fair enough, but I don't think you can blame the power for that.   Honest, I'd simply like to see it a level 6 power instead of level 2. That would fit more with my own sense of balance. I don't think the actual capability of it is unreasonable in the game, but is a bit much at level 2 compared to some other options. I'd hate to see it just become another small skill-based thing - honestly, I've found those are harder to reliably tell how it will work from one DM to the next.</blockquote>

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