Insubstantial =?

[Scribble]

So insubstantial creatures can no longer walk through walls?

Not sure how I feel about that...

 

[Dausuul]

So insubstantial creatures can no longer walk through walls?

Not sure how I feel about that...

Most of them can. "Insubstantial" (half damage from attacks) is now decoupled from "phasing" (can walk through walls).

So, for example, a water elemental could be insubstantial but not have phasing, while a blink dog could have phasing but not be insubstantial. On the other hand, wraiths and the like are both insubstantial and phasing.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Oooh, I hadn't noticed that yet. I likes

 

[Scribble]

Most of them can. "Insubstantial" (half damage from attacks) is now decoupled from "phasing" (can walk through walls).

Ahhh I hadn't caught that bit about phazing... Thanks!

On the other hand, wraiths and the like are both insubstantial and phasing.

Where does it say it in the stat block? I'm just drinking my morning coffee now, so if I'm missing an obvious thing, forgive me...

 

[Festivus]

On the Immune line is says Insubstantial
On the speed line is says Phasing

 

[Dausuul]

What I want to know is why they even bothered with Insubstantial in the first place. I mean, they could have just doubled the wraith's hit points instead, which would have been much simpler and less subject to DMs forgetting to apply the ability.

 

[Mezzer]

For everything else that wasn't a wraith. For effects which care about bloodied. For PC abilities. For a million other reasons...

 

[Dausuul]

For everything else that wasn't a wraith.

Double their hit points too.

For effects which care about bloodied.

What does that have to do with anything? If a wraith has 40 hit points and takes half damage from all attacks, then it will be bloodied after taking 40 (halved to 20) points of damage. If a wraith has 80 hit points and takes normal damage, then it will be bloodied after taking... 40 points of damage.

For PC abilities.

This is a legitimate concern, but I have a hard time believing it's common enough to justify the nuisance factor. Just have all PC abilities that turn you insubstantial include the special effect, "You take half damage from all attacks."

Likewise, for effects or abilities that negate the insubstantial bonus, change them to "Inflicts double damage to insubstantial creatures." Instead of having a sweeping rule for all insubstantial creatures, have a specific rule for the oddball cases.

For a million other reasons...

Such as?

(On thinking about it, I guess it boils down to this question: Is insubstantiality something that mostly shows up as an innate monster trait? Or is it something that mostly shows up with normal creatures that sometimes turn insubstantial? If the former, then the half-damage effect should be changed to double hit points. If the latter, then the half-damage effect is the best way to handle it.)

 

[Alraiis]

What I want to know is why they even bothered with Insubstantial in the first place. I mean, they could have just doubled the wraith's hit points instead, which would have been much simpler and less subject to DMs forgetting to apply the ability.

For effects which ignore the insubstantial quality.

 

[Dausuul]

For effects which ignore the insubstantial quality.

There is exactly one such effect in the whole Player's Handbook--the Inescapable Force feat. Easier to say it just doubles damage versus insubstantial creatures when using force attacks.

However, having just gone through the Monster Manual in search of the "insubstantial" keyword, it looks like it's actually more common to have stuff that goes back and forth between substantial and insubstantial than it is to have stuff that's permanently insubstantial. So I guess it makes sense, it just adds a bit of extra work to running wraiths and the like.