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<blockquote data-quote="ST" data-source="post: 2129911" data-attributes="member: 14053">Hey,Would it be worth having a sit-down with the whole group and letting people discuss whether or not they'd like to optimize their character builds? Or heck, even slightly change their character concepts? I don't know that you were coddling your players at all before the new guy joined. It sounds like their character advancement was based on what they thought would be fun, and would match the idea of the character in their head, rather than what's optimal. It's just that when somebody comes in that's optimal, they're no longer good enough. They were having lots of fun before, so it makes me grumble when people talk about how you were &quot;going easy on them&quot; or whatever. (This is my biggest problem with D&amp;D -- as much as people complain about minmaxing and the like, it works, and it makes a big difference, because the game's primarily about killing stuff. Whether or not the players are really into killing stuff the most efficient way possible isn't relevant.)You've established that getting the new guy to &quot;play down&quot; to their level isn't viable, so you can help them &quot;play up&quot; to his. I did notice, however, that it sounds like some of your players (such as your wife) aren't honestly all that interested in thrilling tactical combat. That actually might be good news if you still want to go that way, because if you can help them make their character more viable in combat without changing how they preceive of them, they probably won't mind at all. Heck, you can probably sell it as an across-the-board boost.Final, crazy idea -- give a little XP across the board, let people go back and change a few things to optimize, and portray it as something like &quot;...and we learn in flashback, they've had these abilities the whole time, they've just haven't shown them yet.&quot; I could see the disguise-master rogue as also being able to break into a building, sneak through unnoticed, and assassinate an enemy, all as part of her &quot;schtick&quot;. Retcons can be kind of fun, especially because you could intertwine it through some of the past stories that you and your group have played through.Anyway, just throwing out some ideas.-SweeneyTodd</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ST, post: 2129911, member: 14053"] Hey, Would it be worth having a sit-down with the whole group and letting people discuss whether or not they'd like to optimize their character builds? Or heck, even slightly change their character concepts? I don't know that you were coddling your players at all before the new guy joined. It sounds like their character advancement was based on what they thought would be fun, and would match the idea of the character in their head, rather than what's optimal. It's just that when somebody comes in that's optimal, they're no longer good enough. They were having lots of fun before, so it makes me grumble when people talk about how you were "going easy on them" or whatever. (This is my biggest problem with D&D -- as much as people complain about minmaxing and the like, it works, and it makes a big difference, because the game's primarily about killing stuff. Whether or not the players are really into killing stuff the most efficient way possible isn't relevant.) You've established that getting the new guy to "play down" to their level isn't viable, so you can help them "play up" to his. I did notice, however, that it sounds like some of your players (such as your wife) aren't honestly all that interested in thrilling tactical combat. That actually might be good news if you still want to go that way, because if you can help them make their character more viable in combat [i]without changing how they preceive of them[/i], they probably won't mind at all. Heck, you can probably sell it as an across-the-board boost. Final, crazy idea -- give a little XP across the board, let people go back and change a few things to optimize, and portray it as something like "...and we learn in flashback, they've had these abilities the whole time, they've just haven't shown them yet." I could see the disguise-master rogue as also being able to break into a building, sneak through unnoticed, and assassinate an enemy, all as part of her "schtick". Retcons can be kind of fun, especially because you could intertwine it through some of the past stories that you and your group have played through. Anyway, just throwing out some ideas. -SweeneyTodd [/QUOTE]

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