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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6135035" data-attributes="member: 177">This has been my experience as well.&nbsp; The primary issue is this - there are very few (if any) strategic miniatures games that are &quot;immersive&quot; in the sense most RPG fans mean that term.&nbsp; Minis wargames are *all* about The Rules.&nbsp; Until such time as you've mastered those rules, pretty much every action in the minis game is a consideration of metagame, rather than being &quot;in character&quot;.&nbsp; If you're only using those minis rules occasionally (as far as the campaign is concerned) the players are unlikely to develop the mastery needed to really play that minis game in the way they do the RPG.My solution, then, has been to frame large battles in terms of scenes/encounters.&nbsp; Each scene is focused on what the PCs themselves are actually doing in the context of the larger fight.&nbsp; Then, I have the outcome of the battle hinge on how the scenes turn out.&nbsp; The players never focus on the abstract of moving large bodies of men, but instead remained focused on what their own characters can do, using normal familiar rules, so they remain immersed.I had some good luck turning a major battle into a &quot;<a href="http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=156" target="_blank">five room dungeon</a>&quot; - same precepts, different window dressing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6135035, member: 177"] This has been my experience as well. The primary issue is this - there are very few (if any) strategic miniatures games that are "immersive" in the sense most RPG fans mean that term. Minis wargames are *all* about The Rules. Until such time as you've mastered those rules, pretty much every action in the minis game is a consideration of metagame, rather than being "in character". If you're only using those minis rules occasionally (as far as the campaign is concerned) the players are unlikely to develop the mastery needed to really play that minis game in the way they do the RPG. My solution, then, has been to frame large battles in terms of scenes/encounters. Each scene is focused on what the PCs themselves are actually doing in the context of the larger fight. Then, I have the outcome of the battle hinge on how the scenes turn out. The players never focus on the abstract of moving large bodies of men, but instead remained focused on what their own characters can do, using normal familiar rules, so they remain immersed. I had some good luck turning a major battle into a "[url=http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=156]five room dungeon[/url]" - same precepts, different window dressing. [/QUOTE]

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