Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7857198" data-attributes="member: 93670">Those 52 % of you in the "sometimes or more" category:Are you guys all running Adventure Paths or at least some sort of metaplot-driven-game?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">My game is set in eberron &  there are things going on with various groups being involved in various things.  I don't really run APs but will occasionally use heavily modified premade filler if I'm lazy or crunched for time.  no on AP.  I think probably no on the other depending on what you consider a "metaplot driven game"?</li> </ul>Everyone:Are any of you using 'Success at a Cost' (DMG 242) and could you see the following action resolution handling occur in your game?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I ran Fate games for a couple years & that was an important part of the system with tools for the GM to push back & such... but that was always a concept that players had a difficult time simply grasping  rather than treating it like the flaws table in old versions of d&d where you went out of your way to make sure the cost was irrelevant.  With that said.  I've toyed with it at times in d&d, but all things considered the system just lacks too much of the needed structure for something like this to have teeth</li> </ul>Situation:  The PCs pass through a Fey Crossroads into the Feywild and must find their way from their unknown point in an enchanted frozen forest of perpetual night to the Dawnmote (lets say its a Winter Fey guarded oasis in this place that doubles as a means to travel to the Summer Fey's domain).To your South and West, a stand of trees rise to extraordinary heights before the darkness cuts off what lies atop them.  The trees sway rhythmically with unseen wind (or something else).  To your North and East, a precarious field of ice stretches out before you in all directions, eerily cracking and groaning.  There is no breeze.  There is nothing.Let us say the Survival Proficient Fighter figures that maybe the heat of the Dawnmote is creating a pressure gradient which generates the unseen wind upon the stand of trees.  Wisdom (Survival) check of 18 vs DC 20.  GM (success but an obstacle that changes the nature of the situation):  "It almost must be so.  In the moments you think on this and get your bearings, the groaning ice fractures, sending cracking tendrils this way and that.  Its coming apart beneath your feet...and by torchlight, you can see something...moving...beneath the ice...What do you do?!Questions:a)  Would this be a case where (i) the Fighter's action declaration and result was allowed to stipulate the location of the Dawnmote in the setting...or (ii) would this be a case where you would simply say "no" because you or your AP or your hexcrawl has a preordained "Dawnmote" location?b)  Is this an obstacle that you would allow to emerge from the Success With Cost/Complication?  What do you feel about the "to be determined thing" beneath the ice?  The roll generated that bit of fiction along with the icefield hazard.  Yes?  Too much?  What other complications would you envision being appropriate?  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">  Either I'm very much not understanding the example or  I just fail to see the relevance of the attempted fate declaration.  Near as I can tell. -to the left (sw) are tall trees moving for no apparent reason<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">To the right(NW) is a field of ice</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Player wants to use survival to declare that some mcguffin is causing the trees to sway?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Player fails & the ice is now underfoot rather than to the right? A monster is also attacking because?....</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">dawnmote doesn't seem to give any results on google & I thought I at least had a basic ubderstanding of the other FR bits noted.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I feel like this example is so confusing that there is probably some setting specific lore tied to a few of those words that I am unaware of & just googling the wrong bits to make it click</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Someone else mentioned it that d&d lacks any mechanics for a player to <a href="https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail" target="_blank">declare</a> a plot/story detail but also the dc20 might as well be dc triangle as there are too many unknowns. Because of all that I tried to give some examples pulled from things other than d&d<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alice is trying to avoid that green ray the beholder fired on her, rather than the 17 (or whatever) she needed, she only got a 16. Gm decides she did ok, but in the process caused one of the pillars supporting the glass ceiling to collapse, now glass is falling on the party (who cares, Alice succeeded on not getting disintegrated). GMs do this kinda stuff all the time but it's called things like fudging rolls & such</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bob has a plan to deal with the beholder but needs an elevated position (who cares why).  Bob asks if there is a tapestry or chandelier he can swing across in order to get to the mezzanine.  This is cool, the DC is zero because bob is being dramatic.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In a system like fate you can have succeed at cost meaningful, but that's really only because all of the tools a PC has at their disposal can be constrained by the "cost". In d&d it's more like failing upward & pretty much all of the examples in that dmg section are of the "if this fails, I need to get the info to them somehow anyways", "Who cares", or "why were you even asking for a roll?" variety - "</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"A character manages to get her sword past a hobgoblin's defenses and turn a near miss into a hit, but the hobgoblin twists its shield and disarms her. "  A little contrived, but ok maybe.  This is the sort of thing that can be cool  & cut both ways.  The problem is that it's normally just "Fudging dice rolls".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"A character narrowly escapes the full brunt of a fireball but ends up prone." Who cares?  They just took half damage (or no damage) from a fireball & even if they are prone but surrounded by baddies the baddies took damage too & ranged attacks are at disadvantage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"A character fails to intimidate a kobold prisoner, but the kobold reveals its secrets anyway while shrieking at the top of its lungs, alerting other nearby monsters.".  um... this is a kobold "prisoner" not "a kobold who just wandered into the store room  where  the players were resting"  This is the sort of thing that would happen no matter what.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"A character manages to finish an arduous climb to the top of a cliff despite slipping, only to realize that the rope on which his companions dangle below him is close to breaking. " This is actually a good one & the sort of thing you might see often, but really all it means is that the urgency to stop dangling is on.  The rope did its job & now you have a <a href="https://fate-srd.com/fate-accelerated/challenges-contests-and-conflicts" target="_blank">challenge</a> or something I think d&d has something (possibly in a ua?) that is similar, the success at cost would be one of the dangling party members dropping their pack/weapon/etc & sticking to the cliff rather than splattering on the ground below.</li> </ul></blockquote>

Verification