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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 4553991" data-attributes="member: 12306">Are there any rules about what is/isn't a melee weapon beyond inclusion/exclusion from the melee weapon tables?&nbsp; I didn't see any, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there...&nbsp; Melee weapon with the various thrown properties do explicitly provide another way to *gain* the &quot;ranged&quot; qualification beyond mere ranged weapon table membership, of course.But the only way I see to become a melee weapon is to be on a table of melee weapons.&nbsp; I don't see any way to cease being a melee weapon beyond being deformed so much that you no longer qualify as one of the entries for melee weapons (which, in the javelin case, would also remove the heavy-thrown and generally make the thing worthless).In short, I don't see how being able to be used to make a melee attack has any relation to being a melee weapon in 4e.&nbsp; Which might be stupid, but there it is: in absence of good definitions of melee weapons, the definitions there are, stand.&nbsp; If there was a &quot;squeeze toy&quot; entry in the superior melee weapons (weight, 0.5 lb to avoid any confusion), with prof/damage entries of N/A and property: &quot;Cannot be used to make a melee attack.&nbsp; Squeeze to make noise.&nbsp; Amuses small children and goblins.&quot;, then it would still be a melee weapon by virtue of being on the superior melee weapon table (and designer insanity, of course).So for Intelligent Blademaster, which doesn't require that you be using a melee weapon *as* a melee weapon (which of course you can't when throwing a javelin, but the point is irrelevant), but only requires that you be making a basic attack with a melee weapon (no requirement that you be using it as a melee weapon, note, merely that it *be* a melee weapon), javelins are made of win.It gets weirder if there are rules for javelins ceasing to be melee weapons when thrown.&nbsp; If a javelin ever ceases to be a melee weapon, then the javelin line in the simple melee weapon table does not apply (because it isn't a melee weapon anymore), the heavy-thrown goes away and you are left with a pointy piece of junk.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 4553991, member: 12306"] Are there any rules about what is/isn't a melee weapon beyond inclusion/exclusion from the melee weapon tables? I didn't see any, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there... Melee weapon with the various thrown properties do explicitly provide another way to *gain* the "ranged" qualification beyond mere ranged weapon table membership, of course. But the only way I see to become a melee weapon is to be on a table of melee weapons. I don't see any way to cease being a melee weapon beyond being deformed so much that you no longer qualify as one of the entries for melee weapons (which, in the javelin case, would also remove the heavy-thrown and generally make the thing worthless). In short, I don't see how being able to be used to make a melee attack has any relation to being a melee weapon in 4e. Which might be stupid, but there it is: in absence of good definitions of melee weapons, the definitions there are, stand. If there was a "squeeze toy" entry in the superior melee weapons (weight, 0.5 lb to avoid any confusion), with prof/damage entries of N/A and property: "Cannot be used to make a melee attack. Squeeze to make noise. Amuses small children and goblins.", then it would still be a melee weapon by virtue of being on the superior melee weapon table (and designer insanity, of course). So for Intelligent Blademaster, which doesn't require that you be using a melee weapon *as* a melee weapon (which of course you can't when throwing a javelin, but the point is irrelevant), but only requires that you be making a basic attack with a melee weapon (no requirement that you be using it as a melee weapon, note, merely that it *be* a melee weapon), javelins are made of win. It gets weirder if there are rules for javelins ceasing to be melee weapons when thrown. If a javelin ever ceases to be a melee weapon, then the javelin line in the simple melee weapon table does not apply (because it isn't a melee weapon anymore), the heavy-thrown goes away and you are left with a pointy piece of junk. [/QUOTE]

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